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To: snarks_when_bored; betty boop
It can't be stated in words? I know you have a high regard for mathematics. Mathematicians insist on trying to state clearly and precisely the assumptions they make and the principles of reasoning they employ. That's what I'm seeking: a statement in words of a principle setting out how it's possible for two souls lacking bodies, spatial locations, and temporal locations to be distinguished from each other.

I've already offered the thought experiment to determine whether we are separate individuals or one individual (consciousness or mind). You accepted that.

But then you asked for the delineation of individuality at the level of soul/spirit. So, likewise I offered a similar spiritual experiment to determine whether we are separate souls or individual souls - with the stipulation that you personally may not be able to conduct that experiment and would have to rely on observations of others. But that, you evidently do not accept.

If you are on the same spiritual wavelength an explanation of "how it is possible" would not be necessary - and if you aren't, you won't believe it anyway because it is Spiritually discerned.

731 posted on 02/17/2005 12:50:48 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl
I've already offered the thought experiment to determine whether we are separate individuals or one individual (consciousness or mind). You accepted that.

I accepted that we're two separate individuals, but I did point out that we're separate because we're two different bodies in two different places. In the absence of bodies and places and times, I don't have a clue how to tell one soul from another. That's what I've been trying to learn from you.

One of my besetting 'sins' is a chronic inability to believe in things that I can't explain to myself. So when I hear somebody else talking about things I can't explain to myself, I try to find out what they mean. That's why I've been asking you the same question over and over again (pestering you!). But now you tell me that only certain special people who experience a certain special sort of experience are able to grasp how souls which lack bodies and spatial positions and temporal positions can nevertheless be distinguished one from another, and this knowledge cannot be expressed in words. And so, since I'm not one of those special people, I guess I'm left behind (so to speak).

Darn.

Best regards...

735 posted on 02/17/2005 1:17:27 PM PST by snarks_when_bored
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To: snarks_when_bored; Alamo-Girl; marron; Physicist; PatrickHenry; Right Wing Professor; cornelis; ...
But then you asked for the delineation of individuality at the level of soul/spirit. So, likewise I offered a similar spiritual experiment to determine whether we are separate souls or individual souls - with the stipulation that you personally may not be able to conduct that experiment and would have to rely on observations of others.

snarks, if you are asking for a physical proof of the existence of discrete souls, about all I could offer would be the observation that souls are not entities definable within the "language" of the 3+1D spacetime continuum; they are outside of it altogether and unavailable for inspection by observers who base their observations on sensual perception of phenomena within the 3+1D block.

i think what Alamo-Girl is suggesting is that the "proof" of the existence of individual souls is not to be found by "looking outward" into the world, but by "looking inward" into conscious experience (i.e., in meditation and contemplation. Plato and Christianity testify to the reality of such experience). So I guess that's why she says you either have to observe (or have the experience) yourself, or trust in others who have. Or not as the case may be. Perhaps you would consider that an evasion. There's no help for that; I do happen to agree with this understanding, however.

A-G, I hope I'm not misrepresenting your view of this!

740 posted on 02/17/2005 2:01:46 PM PST by betty boop
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To: Alamo-Girl
Pam Reynolds
760 posted on 02/17/2005 6:20:30 PM PST by jwalsh07
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