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Well snarks, I've been away for a while on work-related matters and I'm sorry I'm such a latecomer to this thread.

But I just had to drop you a note to say that you gave what I consider to be a fair consideration of what I also believe are some of the obvious flaws in the Intelligent Design hypothesis.

What we really need is a thread to compare the two schools of thought on Intelligent Design that form what I consider to be the most unlikely alliance of all. Some Intelligent Design proponents see it as an alternative to Abiogenesis and/or Evolution -- which is false in the latter instance, since Intelligent Design recognizes the evolution of species -- and other Intelligent Design proponents reject a divine origin altogether and use the theory to support their hypothesis that the origins of complex life on earth derive from elsewhere in the universe, i.e. that an Extraterrestrial Intelligence is the "designer."

We really need to make that alliance better known. I can think of no group of more unlikely allies than creationists and extraterrestrial origin advocates. It boggles my mind every time I think about it.

Good job snarks!

Well snarks, I've been away for a while on work-related matters and I'm sorry I'm such a latecomer to this thread.
But I just had to drop you a note to say that you gave what I consider to be a fair consideration of what I also believe are some of the obvious flaws in the Intelligent Design hypothesis.

Let me hasten to point out this thread started with P.Z. Myers' critique of Michael Behe's NYTimes op-ed piece. I can't take any credit for that. But welcome to the thread...

What we really need is a thread to compare the two schools of thought on Intelligent Design that form what I consider to be the most unlikely alliance of all. Some Intelligent Design proponents see it as an alternative to Abiogenesis and/or Evolution -- which is false in the latter instance, since Intelligent Design recognizes the evolution of species -- and other Intelligent Design proponents reject a divine origin altogether and use the theory to support their hypothesis that the origins of complex life on earth derive from elsewhere in the universe, i.e. that an Extraterrestrial Intelligence is the "designer."

Er, actually the design hypothesis doesn't dictate whether the designer is divine, alien or collective consciousness - only that the physical laws and mechanisms of traditional evolution (happenstance of random mutation + natural selection) are not adequate to explain what we actually observe.

But I am "all for" a thread to battle it out! Let's finally get down to the nitty-grit of mathematics (including information theory) and physics in biological systems - complex systems theory, quantization of continuums, autonomy, semiosis and the whole nine yards. Let's finally get a consensus of what is life v non-life/death.

We circumlocute the subject all the time on these threads. It's high time we hit the nail on the head and see what's there!