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Lawmaker offers $5,000 on man-woman marriage
WorldNetDaily.com ^ | Feb. 12, 2005

Posted on 02/12/2005 1:00:23 PM PST by CitizenM

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To: jwalsh07
I have never said that the Bible supports homosexual marriage as you claim I said. That is a lie, and I am sorry you had to resort to that. I have said that the Bible does not restrict marriage between men and women, because the Bible is silent on marriage. I may not know a lot about the Bible, but know a few things about the early Church through my years of studying Latin. The early Church was actually hostile to marriage, and it wasn't until the Middle Ages that the Church got into such things. Makes perfect sense. The early Church was established without the help of the state and was in most cases had different views of the state. Over time, things changed. Hence, the Church didn't get into civil laws until the Middle Ages. It maybe opposed to homosexuality, but as to the state recognizing such things the Bible is silent. It however does ask us to give to Caesar what is his due, which means that the temporal authority may institute laws that are different from God's. The Bible should be silent about civil laws. Christianity is not the Sharia. According to Martin Luther, we are justified in front of God only through His grace. We need not institute a Christian sharia in order to be presentable in front of God. Still, you will be hardpressed to find the institution of marriage in the Bible. If you look you will see that a lot of Saints and Christian scholars were actually opposed to marriage because they thought that it would be God sanctioning lust. Also, why just target homosexual marriage? How about eating unclean animals? Death penalty for adulters? Death penalty for cursing your parents?

How quickly we forget:the Constituion does not mention marriage but the Constitution through 14A is the guarantor of equal protection fro all. Heterosexual marriage fulfills that requirement.

If you want to backtrack your remark, I will let you do it. You brought up the defense of marriage through the 14th Amendment, I didn't. The only way you could use the 14th Amendment to defend heterosexual marriage is if somehow heterosexuals are discriminated against. The 14th Amendment does not protect things, it protects people. Marriage cannot be defended using the 14th Amendment, only heterosexuals can if they feel discriminated against because of homosexual marriage. I hope your reading of the Bible is better than the Constitution.

To sum up, I am not using the Bible to justify homosexual marriage. You are using the Bible to justify heterosexual marriage only. I am saying that the Bible or the practices of the early Church is silent on marriage, because it was simply an act of society sanctioned by the state and not necessarily of any religion. The federal govt has absolutely no say on this matter unless a Constitutional amendment is passed giving them that right. As such, the question should be whether the govt (in our instance the 50 states) can deny homosexuals the right to marry each other based on the Bible. I say no, because the Bible says nothing about marriage period. The early Church was opposed to it, and the first sacraments of marriage didn't even come into existence until a thousand years later. The references of marriage in the Old Testament is simply a reference to what went on in society at that time, like in Gn 28:2. In fact, what Abraham did in 20:12 is strictly forbidden in Leviticus 18:9 and 20:17.

The Bible is not the Sharia. It is not a guide for temporal laws, but divine ones. You will be justified in front of God through his grace. Don't worry about anything else.

101 posted on 02/13/2005 4:21:27 PM PST by econ_grad
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To: loboinok

The Leviticus is packed with references of polygamy, directly or indirectly. Read Chapters 18 and 20.


102 posted on 02/13/2005 4:30:31 PM PST by econ_grad
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To: econ_grad
I have never said that the Bible supports homosexual marriage as you claim I said. That is a lie, and I am sorry you had to resort to that.

I won't be reading another word from you. Not once have I stated that you said the Bible supports homosexual marriage. We're done, I don't debate with serial dissemblers.

103 posted on 02/13/2005 4:31:01 PM PST by jwalsh07
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To: jwalsh07
You will find nothing in the Bible supporting marriage between those of the same sex.

You are done because your arguments are poor and sophomoric. The above is your own quote. Its implication must be that at some point I stated that Bible supports homosexual marriage. You are a charlatan.

104 posted on 02/13/2005 4:37:39 PM PST by econ_grad
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To: CitizenM

The bible is full of imprecations against homosexuality but the technicality he's playing on is that the bible does not forbid a sexless homosexual "marriage"


105 posted on 02/13/2005 4:42:10 PM PST by muir_redwoods
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To: econ_grad
Me: You will find nothing in the Bible supporting marriage between those of the same sex.

You: I have never said that the Bible supports homosexual marriage as you claim I said. That is a lie, and I am sorry you had to resort to that.

Me:I won't be reading another word from you. Not once have I stated that you said the Bible supports homosexual marriage.

You: Its implication must be that at some point I stated that Bible supports homosexual marriage.

Only a left wing lunatic could arrive at such a conclusion. And now I've got your number.

106 posted on 02/13/2005 5:54:24 PM PST by jwalsh07
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To: jwalsh07

You are the lefty lunatic who stretches the Bible and wants to use the 14th Amendment for your social goal. You have exposed yourself for the fraud that you are. No point in dragging this further. I have no time for an imbecile. It must be past your bedtime.


107 posted on 02/13/2005 5:58:46 PM PST by econ_grad
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To: econ_grad

The Leviticus is packed with references of polygamy, directly or indirectly. Read Chapters 18 and 20.

What does that have to do with my answer?
I addressed that in post #98


108 posted on 02/13/2005 6:02:23 PM PST by loboinok (Gun Control is hitting what you aim at!)
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To: econ_grad
If you want to backtrack your remark, I will let you do it. You brought up the defense of marriage through the 14th Amendment, I didn't. The only way you could use the 14th Amendment to defend heterosexual marriage is if somehow heterosexuals are discriminated against. The 14th Amendment does not protect things, it protects people. Marriage cannot be defended using the 14th Amendment, only heterosexuals can if they feel discriminated against because of homosexual marriage. I hope your reading of the Bible is better than the Constitution.

My word, how did you get a degree in economics? I said:

1. The 14A is the guarantor of equal protection. That is a fact.

2. Heterosexual marriage fulfills the requirement of equal protection because it doesn't discriminate. Another fact.

3. You read this to claim that I said heterosexuals can use the 14A to claim discrimination if homosexuals are allowed to marry.

How obtuse can you get?

I've debated loads of people on line over the years and the only folks I have debated with your particular style of dissembling, lying and obtuseness have inevitably been lefties. For the sake of conservatism, I hope that rule holds true in your case.

109 posted on 02/13/2005 6:04:25 PM PST by jwalsh07
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To: loboinok

Take it from me, you're wasting your time.


110 posted on 02/13/2005 6:10:07 PM PST by jwalsh07
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To: econ_grad
I have no time for an imbecile. It must be past your bedtime

I have no time for left wing punks. Seems we've finally reached an accord.

111 posted on 02/13/2005 6:20:35 PM PST by jwalsh07
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To: jwalsh07

Sorry I misunderstood. I thought you meant the 14th amendment can be used to defend heterosexual marriage. The rest of your arguments are equally unclear or wrong. Economics is about treating social science with the same rigor as physical science. Clearly you stayed far away from either discipline.


112 posted on 02/13/2005 6:27:42 PM PST by econ_grad
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To: jwalsh07
You: You will find nothing in the Bible supporting marriage between those of the same sex.
Me: Its implication must be that at some point I stated that Bible supports homosexual marriage.

Find me where I said, in your words, "The Bible supports marriage between those of the same sex." For you to show that you have to come up with something close to me saying "The Bible supports homosexual marriage." It is clear you have no respect for truth or logic. Take your ball and go home. If you want to swing in the big leagues you have to be ready to be humiliated.

113 posted on 02/13/2005 6:31:40 PM PST by econ_grad
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To: loboinok
You said: A short time later in Leviticus 18:6 the very same thing (incest)was FORBIDDEN. The same holds true for polygamy.

Are you related to someone else on this thread?

114 posted on 02/13/2005 6:33:30 PM PST by econ_grad
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To: econ_grad
Find me where I said, in your words, "The Bible supports marriage between those of the same sex."

These are not my words you freaking moron, they are yours. You find them.

115 posted on 02/13/2005 6:46:50 PM PST by jwalsh07
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To: jwalsh07

You said:You will find nothing in the Bible supporting marriage between those of the same sex. What was the point of this statement? Don't try stupid third-grade law school drop-out rhetorical tricks on me. Any reasonable person will conclude that I said something akin to that what you allege. You are a complete fraud and you have exposed yourself. Now go back and study for your GED.


116 posted on 02/13/2005 6:52:03 PM PST by econ_grad
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To: jwalsh07

Take it from me, you're wasting your time.

I have absolutely no doubt, but hey, when you have time to kill.
I know what they look for and truth is not it.


117 posted on 02/13/2005 11:43:04 PM PST by loboinok (Gun Control is hitting what you aim at!)
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To: econ_grad

Are you related to someone else on this thread?

Absolutely...every single person who has a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.


118 posted on 02/13/2005 11:49:33 PM PST by loboinok (Gun Control is hitting what you aim at!)
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To: loboinok

..And also has no sense of reason and logic.


119 posted on 02/14/2005 7:25:02 AM PST by econ_grad
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To: econ_grad

..And also has no sense of reason and logic.

Some people are just too smart to be educated. But since you brought up 'reason and logic'.
How reasonable and logical is it for someone to debate or argue both sides of a matter that they clearly stated at the beginning of having limited knowledge of?

You have limited knowledge of medicine. How many times have you argued with your Doctor, about what course of action is better to take in your treatment?


120 posted on 02/14/2005 2:17:00 PM PST by loboinok (Gun Control is hitting what you aim at!)
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