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To: Vicomte13
I'd rather obey what Judeo Christian God has to say and that prohibits graven images.

It's clear to me that what He want you to avoid is precisely what you are drawn to.

Isn't it odd how it bother YOU that I am NOT the least bit interested in this cloth? If you must worship it, adore it, dream about it ... I simply want NO parts of it. It's a fraud.
452 posted on 02/16/2005 3:28:58 PM PST by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God).)
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To: nmh

Doesn't bother me in the slightest.

I am slightly concerned for you, that's all.

You have abandoned science, which has interesting things to say about the cloth, and are asserting something on the basis of FAITH. Which is swell...unless God left that cloth there exactly as it appears as an aid to men's faith. Certainly he performed so many of his other miracles for that very purpose! This would hardly be out of line.

In that case, you are calling an act of God a sinful graven image. And that would be an error. Probably not a very serious one, but an error nonetheless. You are asserting with certitude that which you cannot possibly know, and if you are wrong, you are giving God a raspberry, telling him that you don't need His stinking sheet.

Anyway, we are all free to think what we want to think.
I am not hostile to science, and find that the process of uncovering the truth or fiction about the Shroud teaches me an awful lot of interesting science and Church history.


455 posted on 02/16/2005 3:36:50 PM PST by Vicomte13 (La nuit s'acheve!)
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To: nmh

Your stance is essentially correct. To the extent that it has anything to do with Christ, it may be interesting; but, treating it as anything special beyond that becomes a matter of idolatry. Some prefer the term "veneration" as opposed to worship because the conviction of using the term worship is apparently too close to home. None bother to note the words are synonymous and interchangeable. And in practice, everything these folks do and call it veneration is textbook definition of worship. But, if it prosper, none Dare call it treason - right. Goes back to my earlier points.


462 posted on 02/16/2005 4:36:46 PM PST by Havoc (Reagan was right and so was McKinley. Down with free trade. Hang the traitors high)
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