A Theory of Biblical Creation

trueorigins.com ^ | 2000 | Timothy Wallace

[Dataman]

By the way, I do not agree that "religion and science are in natural and eternal conflict in Western society" or at least I believe that they do not *necessarily* need be.

You are correct, and the article labeled that concept a lie. "Religion" is usually used as an equivocation for "Christianity."

[Jeff Gordon]

I found this simple quiz that you can give to people who claim to understand entropy. I wonder how Creationist Science would respond.


A space station orbiting the sun between earth and venus. The station is located at a distance from the sun that ensures that its internal temperature is a comfortable 70 degrees F.

First someone on board the station lights a match. During the 1 second interval that the flame of the match flares---

1 The entropy of the station as a whole:
a. increases
b. decreases
c. remains the same

2 The thermal order of the station
a. increases
b. decreases
c. remains the same

3 The entropy of the whole universe:
a. increases
b. decreases
c. remains the same

4 The thermal order of the universe
a. increases
b. decreases
c. remains the same

Next someone on board the station puts seeds in a planter located near a viewport on the sunlit side of the station. Carefully watered, the seeds grow into a row of carrots.

5 The entropy of the station as a whole has:
a. increased
b. decreased
c. remained the same

6 The thermal order of the station has
a. increased
b. decreased
c. remained the same

7 Meanwhile the entropy of the whole universe:
a. increases
b. decreases
c. remains the same

8 The thermal order of the universe
a. increases
b. decreases
c. remains the same

The seed from which one of the carrots grew happened to be struck by radiation during a solar storm. As a result it is a mutated carrot, having twice the usual content of beta-carotene in its makup. This makes it a better carrot from our point of view. The appearance of this evolved carrot resulted in:

9 The entropy of the station as a whole: a. increasing b. decreasing c. remaining the same

10 The thermal order of the station has
a. increased
b. decreased
c. remained the same

11 The entropy of the whole universe:
a. increased
b. decreased
c. remained the same

12 The thermal order of the universe
a. increased
b. decreased
c. remained the same

Finally someone eats the carrots. After allowing time for them to digest the meal, we can say that:

13 The entropy of the station as a whole:
a. increased
b. decreased
c. remained the same

14 The thermal order of the station
a. increased
b. decreased
c. remained the same

15 The entropy of the whole universe:
a. increased
b. decreased
c. remained the same

16 The thermal order of the universe
a. increased
b. decreased
c. remained the same

[Dimensio]

You called him and all creationists liars.

I was referring to a subset of creationists who are liars, and it was not, in any way, directed at CyberAnt (about whom I had made no comments at that time). I did not once claim or even try to imply that "all creationists" are liars. You, however, are a known unrepentant liar, and so you're trying to redefine my comments to suit your dishonest agenda.

And then you call him another name:

I called him a coward in that posting, not in any "previous" postings. That's why I used the key term "previous" when I said that I hadn't called him any names; I didn't want anyone trying to throw the content of that very post back in my face. You, however, are such a liar that the context of my post makes no difference to you, you'll just ignore the context that doesn't suit you so that you can engage in dishonest attacks.

[Dataman]

Calm yourself. Texas Songwriter had it right:

Now Mr. Dimensio, please be nice. Get your stinger put back in and have a nice, civil discussion. I know you can do that. You almost did it once

[Dimensio]

As I said before, I've had this very article tossed my way when I asked for a "scientific theory of creationism" that meets the criteria of the scientific method, and I've analyzed it once before. The article does not state a "theory of creationism" or a theory at all in line with the scientific method, and moreover it misrepresents the theory of evolution at multiple times. The intellectual honesty and credibility of the author is quesitonable at best.

[HankReardon]

You don't believe in God? Do you believe you are the most ultimate being?

[RaceBannon]

http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3738ed013863.htm

The Bible never said the Earth was Flat

[RaceBannon]

Because it is not a lie.

You have absolutely no reason to hold to any idea of right and wrong without the Creator originating that idea, because everything else is an opinion subject to change and whim.

[Dimensio]

Because it is not a lie.

Yes, it is. Evolution does not say that there is no objective source of "right" and "wrong", and the theory does not imply that there can be no entity acting as such a source. You have been told this before, but because you have it stuck in your head that you don't need to do any research to know everything, you contine to spout lies as you rant and rave. You'll just keep asserting false things about evolution and you won't be able to cite a single scientific text on evolution to support your claims.

[DaGman]

"I think the vast majority of the tenets..."

Sorry, but these two key words in your post point out completely the falacies in creationism. Evolution theory is built on many proven facts. 100% of creationism is built on "I think".

[free_european]

You are a bit late. This topic has been debated above at length.

[Dataman]

The Bible never said the Earth was Flat

No disagreement from me.

[free_european]

The HarperCollins Bible Dictionary states:

“The Hebrew universe. The ancient Hebrews imagined the world as flat and round, covered by the great dome of the firmament which was held up by mountain pillars (Job 26.11; 37.18). Above the firmament and under the earth was water, divided by God at creation (Gen 1.6, 7; cf Pss 24.2; 148.4). The upper waters were joined with the waters of the primordial deep during the Flood; the rains were believed to fall through windows in the firmament (Gen 7.11; 8.2). The sun, moon, and stars moved across or were fixed in the firmament (Gen 1.14-19; Ps 19.4, 6). Within the earth lay Sheol, the realm of the dead (Num 16.30-33; Isa 14.9, 15).” (p339)

[Dataman]

The HarperCollins Bible Dictionary states

Not exactly a scholarly or credible source. It obviously does not take into account Hebrew poetry or ancient literary forms and devices. Critics of the Bible often take a figurative English phrase found in the Bible and demand unjustifiably that it be interpreted literally. I recently read one such critic on FR who said "the four corners of the earth" indicated a belief that the earth was square. That is absurd, of course. Our own use of figurative phrases such as "sunrise and sunset," or "The White House has no comment," does not prove that all meteorologists believe the sun revolves around the earth or that the White House has a mouth.

[hosepipe]

The Third Human obviously came from the first two...
And humans have been devolving ever since..

Yes... I'm a Devolvoist...

[DannyTN]

I still don't read it the way you are.

Yes, it starts "This is the book of the generations of Adam (period)." And then it begans recounting the generations, which started in the day God made Adam. Your reading of it runs that first sentence into the second, which shouldn't be.

[tfecw]

No i don't.

Now why would you jump to the conclusion that I believe i am the most ultimate being? How could any rational human being take the statement: "I don't believe in God" and turn it into "i believe I am the most ultimate being"
How can you even make that leap?

[Fester Chugabrew]

You show me a dinosaur fossil in the same geological layer as a human fossil and that would go a long way to disproving evolution.

Show me a textbook that illustrates where fossils have actually been found as opposed to where the author thinks they fit into a preconceived notion of history and it would do the same thing.

[Fester Chugabrew]

How is it possible that they were buried on the same day yet are in different layers?

The biblical account of the flood indicates a period of months, not a single day.

[Fester Chugabrew]

Given that the dominant view of men was that the world was flat until quite recently, this doesnt seem too surprising.

I question how predominant that manner of thinking has been throughout history. We hear it said that "almost everybody always thought the earth was flat until Columbus sailed without falling off the edge." Any bets this is a gross oversimplification of human understanding throughout history? Sure, there is a "flat earth society," but organized societies by names such as this represent an esoteric, intractible theme less than the general understanding of humankind.