Posted on 02/08/2005 10:26:54 AM PST by DannyTN
How did he change the rules?
I think the vast majority of the tenets he lays out are very researchible and falsifiable.
Many of the great scientists of our history were motivated to understand the design of the Creator.
You claimed that "The church has always held that the earth was a sphere."
Noting that Aquinas and others believed in a speherical world does not support your claim that the church always held that the world was round.
The HarperCollins Bible Dictionary states:
“The Hebrew universe. The ancient Hebrews imagined the world as flat and round, covered by the great dome of the firmament which was held up by mountain pillars (Job 26.11; 37.18). Above the firmament and under the earth was water, divided by God at creation (Gen 1.6, 7; cf Pss 24.2; 148.4). The upper waters were joined with the waters of the primordial deep during the Flood; the rains were believed to fall through windows in the firmament (Gen 7.11; 8.2). The sun, moon, and stars moved across or were fixed in the firmament (Gen 1.14-19; Ps 19.4, 6). Within the earth lay Sheol, the realm of the dead (Num 16.30-33; Isa 14.9, 15).” (p339)
You see, that's what I'm talking about.
A thread like this makes the angels vomit.
I have not had time to read all of the article or the posts yet.
Still, read Genesis 5:1. According to Genesis humans are living still in the 6th Creational day. You can logically and scientifically dispute the account's validity, but it what it actually says is that man is living now in the 6th day.
Oh and bump to myself for later.
Sorry .. I don't know anything about that.
Since your discussion has dissolved into calling me names .. our conversation is over.
I don't read Gen 5:1 that way. I read it to say that in the day God made man, He made man in His image and He made man male and female.
However it's said that the ancient Hebrews taught that the Earth would exist in a fallen state for 6,000 years (1000 years corresponding to a day) and then have a rest for 1000 years.
It's thought that there were about 2000 years to the flood, 2000 years to Jesus and 2000 years till now. It's also thought that with the rebirth of Israel and other signs such as the rise of lesbianism and the rise in evolution whereby men forget the flood and creation, that we are in the last times prior to Great Tribulation. After which there will be the 1000 year reign of Christ mentioned in Revelations which would correspond to God's day of rest.
Ok, this article says that Talmudic scholars held one of four views:
1) The earth is flat and is resting on some sort of foundation.
2) The earth is flat but is floating in the air or nothingness.
3) The earth is round but its "bottom" half is immersed in water.
4) The earth is round and both sides are inhabitable.
The scholar quoted as supporting the fourth view is R' Yonah. Your article states: "R' Yonah quotes a Greek legend and accepted the fact that the earth is round. The seas, however, are flat according to R' Yonah, similar to the water in a bowl that flattens out on top despite the roundness of the bowl. This would be the fourth view we mentioned above."
A bowl-like earth with flat seas seems far from the globaularist views of Aquinas and later scholars. This article does not show that ancient Hebrews realized the world was round, it only shows that there was disagreement amongst Talmudic scholars over which (incorrect as it truns out) view of the world was best.
In the statements in the Tables there are at least four or five that are clearly evolution centered. I'd expect you to take issue with the first three statements in the table as not having to do with science, and have issues with the entropy statement and the radiometric dating. But the rest seem pretty straight forward.
No, I would not say you are uncivil. But I do think you might consider being a little nicer. I know your mother taught you to be nice. Otherwise you would not be a freeper. I sometimes go on a thread and actually look for your name and sort of make a little bet with myself as to how long it will take you to pick a fight. Its your style, and it is entertaining, but I think sometimes you hurt peoples feelings with your tersness. I am beyond having my feelings hurt, so relax, float downstream and enjoy the ride.
But two of the three views does have a round earth, even if their understanding wasn't perfect.
| The reason for promoting both the specific lie about the sphericity of the earth and the general lie that religion and science are in natural and eternal conflict in Western society, is to defend Darwinism. The answer is really only slightly more complicated than that bald statement. The flat-earth lie was ammunition against the creationists. The argument was simple and powerful, if not elegant: "Look how stupid these Christians are. They are always getting in the way of science and progress. These people who deny evolution today are exactly the same sort of people as those idiots who for at least a thousand years denied that the earth was round. How stupid can you get?" |
I have read it and found it interesting. By the way, I do not agree that "religion and science are in natural and eternal conflict in Western society" or at least I believe that they do not *necessarily* need be.
Suggest you read it again. These are the generations...in the day....
IMO it could not be more simple. We are living in the 6th day according to the Bible.
I won't be debating these matters at length here with anyone. I consider myself well schooled on the matter of eschatology, but I very much dislike the spirit of debate.
The text says what it says.
To: tfecw Just because they get all their information from a book that was written 2000 years ago, doesn't make them liars.
No, the fact that they lie about what evolution states makes them liars. 73 posted on 02/08/2005 4:17:04 PM CST by Dimensio You called him and all creationists liars. Then you called yourself a liar:
so you lie about me calling you names
And then you call him another name:
and run away like a coward.
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