People Don't Write That Way Anymore [Freeper-run magazine article]

The Tarpeian Rock ^ | February 2005 | Claudio R. Salvucci

[cyborg]

ping

[cyborg]

A lot of poor folk were taught to read using the Bible.

[Tax-chick]

True, and it's got plenty of advanced vocabulary, too!

[cyborg]

Oh yes it sure does. 'Dumb downed' bibles really concern me. If a person can read and understand the King James version, then they can read everything else. I realize that debate is about as fun-filled as a civil war discussion :-)

[Tax-chick]

LOL! I'm giving up Civil War argument for Lent :-). But the boys are going to Confederate Boot Camp at a local historic site in July. I can't wait to see my slug Tom marching an hour at time in the heat!

[cyborg]

I'm giving up junk food and errr... I was about to say Internet but who am I kidding? :o) Confederate boot camp?!

[Tax-chick]

It's four days of drill, outdoor cooking, and plenty of dirt.

We're going on short rations of Internet ... 2 hours a week each is goal. Can't give up FReeping entirely, because we've got a big event coming up in March.

[cyborg]

Do you have any pics of the boot camp? I could not do two hours a week. Two hours a day maybe. What's the event?

[Tax-chick]

This is the first year for the boot camp here. The director said it was very popular at his previous job on a historic plantation in Virginia. I'll make sure I get pictures when they go.

In March, the leftists are demonstrating at Ft. Bragg, against the Iraq war (and everything else they're against.) FReepers have organized a counter-protest. It happened last year, too ... Rolling Thunder was there, some of the DC Chapter, South Carolina people ... but I missed it. Our whole family is going, unless there's a disaster. I can't wait to meet Doctor Raoul!

[Old Professer]

Isn't that like, so yesterday???

[cyborg]

Keep us posted about the March thing.

[Antoninus]

I dunno. It's about what works for the author. Hemmingway's style certainly isn't classical in any manner--indeed, it's simple to the point of being juvenile, but it works. He's a titan. Vonnegut also comes to mind.

For what it's worth, I despise both Hemmingway and Vonnegut. I found their writing dry, lackluster, and generally unmemorable except for a few purely titillating lines here and there. JMHO, of course. I remember asking myself in high school when forced to read those two, "is this really the best that America has to offer??"

[Antoninus]

Thanks. Some interesting points. It makes me think of some of the letters and diaries I've read of Civil War soldiers. Their spelling and punctuation, in those unstandardized times, were truly bizarre; however, if you read aloud, their composition is usually very clear and elegantly phrased, because they were used to listening to the Bible, some of the classics, and newspapers written by journalists with a classical education.

Exactly. I often think of Civil War era prose when I think of great American writing. One of the radio talk show hosts, I can't remember which one (maybe Hugh Hewitt) recently read the entire text of Lincoln's second inaugural address on the air. It was pure poetry from start to finish. I thought to myself, "now, that fellow knew how to get an idea across with style!"

For what it's worth, the ancient Romans didn't bother too much with punctuation either...

[Claud]

if you read aloud, their composition is usually very clear and elegantly phrased, because they were used to listening to the Bible, some of the classics, and newspapers written by journalists with a classical education

Exactly! I'll also add by way of comparison some of the Indian orations from the 1600s and 1700s (Logan's among them). They read amazingly well even today. The tribes, even though illiterate, had an esteemed tradition of rhetoric. But they had a mini "Republic of Letters" where the youth learned to imitate the council speeches of their elders.

[Tax-chick]

Will. (I'm on my 20 minutes for today :-).

[Tax-chick]

I'm a grammar nut, I confess. However, it's not truly necessary to punctuate for oral communication.

The point about the Indian orations is well-taken, too. Sadly, it seems most people today can't communicate orally or in writing!

[Antoninus]

The point about the Indian orations is well-taken, too. Sadly, it seems most people today can't communicate orally or in writing!

Ain't dat dee trut.

[Publius Valerius]

I think Vonnegut is the best author of the last half of the 20th Century, domestic or foreign. Hemingway I am less fond of, but some of his stuff (The Sun Also Rises comes immediately to mind) is very good.

As for Vonnegut, the structure of his stories were completely different than anything else ever published. His early stuff was less experimental and more straightforward (Player Piano, Cats Cradle) but by the time he got to Slaughterhouse-Five, wow, talk about really, fundamentally, altering the playing field of the American novel! It WAS different. The different makes it great. I think the plot "structure" of Slaughterhouse-Five (and other Vonnegut works) is why every attempt to make them into a movie is an utter failure. It can't be captured linerally, as is necessary for a movie.

I remember one time walking through the Metropolitan Museum of Art with my mother. The Met has several Pollock's on display. My mother couldn't believe that these were considered great art. Now, admittedly, Jackson Pollock's work seems a little more blase, but in 1950, no one had ever done anything like that before. Pollock, in no small part, "created" modern art. I think Vonnegut holds a similar place in literature as does Pollock in the world of art. Hemingway and Vonnegut changed the way novels are written and looked at. They are titans.

[Buggman]

Bump for a later read.

[Antoninus]

I think Vonnegut holds a similar place in literature as does Pollock in the world of art.

That about says it all, frankly. You meant it as a compliment to both, I'm sure. But you might as well have said: "Vonnegut holds a similar place in literature as Marx does in political history." All it means is that he pointed the way down a path that was radically different--and ultimately shallow, foolish, and wrong.

Hemingway and Vonnegut changed the way novels are written and looked at. They are titans.

Just becomes someone does something "different" doesn't automatically make that person "a titan." Give it some time. I'll wager that guys like Vonnegut, Hemingway, and Pollack for that matter, if they are remembered at all 100 years from now, will be considered in much the same way we treat the puerile art and stunted panegyric literature of the late Roman period today.