[A Balrog of Morgoth]

Actually, the Protocols of the Elders of Zion was a forgery made by the Czar's secret police.

The root of many later conspiracy theories of powerful groups attempting to dominate the world through deceptive means.

I'm sorry, but our national story doesn't end with us as UN chattel. We've beaten far worse then that bunch of dopes.

[Free2BeMe]

Part of it was lifted from the French satire,"Dialogues in Hell Between Machiavelli and Montesquieu" but it was written as Propaganda to flame antisemitism.

[processing please hold]

Then why give the UN a toe-hold? They need to know that we won't stand for it...well, some of us won't.

Never underestimate your enemy. That is a critical mistake.

[NRA2BFree]

Google has 20,800,000 links with information on Agenda 21. It's not a joke.

[Ol' Dan Tucker]

I'm sorry, but our national story doesn't end with us as UN chattel. We've beaten far worse then that bunch of dopes.

Really? How have we beaten the UN?

What precisely have we done to beat them?

What are the signs of our 'victory'?

Please don't merely express your opinion. Anyone, especially a swabbie can tell a great sea tale.

I want you to provide the proof to back up your claims.

[Ol' Dan Tucker]

In the meantime, here's a little tidbit for you to chew on.

UNESCO World Heritage Sites - Everglades National Park:

Threats to the Site:

The site was inscribed on the List of the World Heritage in Danger in 1993 after the park's Superintendent informed the Committee of extensive damage to Everglades' ecology due to a number of causes including nearby urban growth, pollution from fertilisers, mercury poisoning of fish and wildlife, and a fall in water levels caused by flood protection measures. In addition, on 24 August 1992, Hurricane Andrew altered much of Florida Bay and its ecological systems and destroyed the park's visitor centre.

The inscription on the List of World Heritage in Danger led to an increased federal funding for the restoration of the site. A major rehabilitation effort is currently underway with $US 8 million budgeted for ecosystem research. This is the largest budget allocation ever voted for research in a park in any part of the world. Legal actions and negotiations were undertaken to reduce pollution by fertiliser, an addition of 107,000 acres has been incorporated to protect the north- eastern part of the Park and structural changes in the water management system have been undertaken to restore the water level in this area.

As of 1998, US$ 26 million worth of land purchases have been completed in the East Everglades Expansion Area; an additional US$ 40 million are needed to finalise the total of 109,000 acres of additional land purchases foreseen as part of the program to expand the total extent of the Everglades National Park. On the other hand, it was noted, legislation introduced in the US Congress would permanently retain the presence of the Miccosukee Tribe within the Everglades National Park. Any agreement for providing a site for the Tribe's continued practice of its living culture may come into conflict with the restoration of water flows through the eastern Shark Slough (where the Miccosukee Tribe is located), considered to be a essential measure for the restoration of the overall Everglades ecosystem.

[familyop]

"I'm sorry, but our national story doesn't end with us as UN chattel. We've beaten far worse then that bunch of dopes."

I can agree with that. Losing in that sense is unthinkable (doctrine from another branch--one that I was an instructor in). But at the same time, I disagree with radical environmentalism and its political associations. Its members, internal and external to our country, are too intent against private control/ownership of real property.

[familyop]

"Actually, the Protocols of the Elders of Zion was a forgery made by the Czar's secret police."

BTW, I did generalize and stand corrected. See something that I recently posted, and like material ("in forum").

Putin admits Russia's anti-Semitism
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1334883/posts

...not simply bashing that country, either, but some demographics and characteristics need to be known by voters and writers in case things there don't work out the way we hope.

"The root of many later conspiracy theories of powerful groups attempting to dominate the world through deceptive means."

Yes. I think we should also be watchful about socialist property control and confiscation efforts in the USA--what the post above this thread is about. Civilian morale and our Constitution are also very important to the security of our country.

[familyop]

BTW, in an e-mail to me, a British Conservative speaker and writer who is a member of a prestigious social organization (meetings at Buckingham Palace and that sort of thing) recently compared our US ease of buying and owning land to lebensraum--the old WWII Nazi plan to confiscate conquered lands for "living space." Projections like that are an old tactic in such propaganda. That's how messed up information matters regarding our way of life are getting in the convincing political speech of some influential political groups in some other countries. Also, bear in mind the increasing anti-Semitism in most radical environmentalist groups--foreign and domestic.

[blanknoone]

I appreciate your position on this thread. But I think you are wrong....well, that is not fair...I think you are missing something. And I think those trying to highlight the threat are missing something too.

This is an ideological struggle. You are right that the UN is a bunch of incompetent buffoons. They are right that the UN is seeking, and getting, incremental control over our rights. The situation is that several of our 'rights' are now 'protected' by incompetent buffoons.

But that is not what is so important. Here is what is important...this is a struggle for ideas, and our side isn't fighting. Theirs is. Granted the left is both wrong and incompetent, but they face no organized resistance...so they are gaining ground. That is what this 21 stuff is about...it is their ideology organizing and supporting its efforts. There is no organized ideological resistance.

Most people don't consider the philosophical underpinnings of their political positions. Politics is an extension of philosophy/religion (Philosophy and religion address, ask and answer the same types of questions..they just do it from different starting points). Fundamentally, politics is an extension of individual morality/ethics (clearly reflected in religious teaching) to the group(not nearly so clearly defined, at least in Christianity). Politics is group morality and ethics.

The 'right' in this country derives its politics from a Judeo-Christian morality and philosophy. The 'left' in this country derives its politics from Kantian philosophy (which is the philosophical basis of socialism). They aren't necessarily socialists, but they share the same basic starting point, and end up somewhere pretty close. It is a difference of degree rather than of principle.

I am personally in neither camp...I am in a very tiny minority. The best way to describe where I come from is that our founding fathers were motivated and inspired by both their religion and their philosophy. I share their philosophy. The right today shares their religion. The left shares neither. Despite my differences with the 'religious right' I am allied with you. You and I can live together and respect each others rights...as demonstrated by the early years of our Republic. Neither of us can 'live with' the left because their conception of 'rights' is fundamentally in conflict.

But what is sad and dangerous is that the left is steadily advancing. At the best of times (like now with an R President, R Senate, R House and at least nominally R Supreme Court) the left doesn't advance...but it doesn't truly go back either. I can't think of any ground the left has taken that we have ever 'taken back' The closest is with welfare reform where we cut spending, but only on the condition that we acknowledge that welfare is permanent. We didn't oppose welfare. We didn't declare that is improper to seize the private property of some citizens to distribute to others...the right fought to 'save welfare'

The other thing that I find disheartening is the education system. The very vast majority of students are being indoctrinated with Kantian philosophy. Try teaching how Jesus determined right from wrong in school. But they are taught how to make judgments based on Kant every day. When people talk about morality, they generally think about the 'big picture' and obvious questions like killing. But EVERY judgment is based on the underpinnings. Not just whether or not abortion is murder, but what career to pursue. What time should you get up in the morning? That is a judgment, and a decision, and we all have to answer the question some how.

What is troubling is that so many are being indoctrinated. At best, the next generation strikes a balance between the religious conceptions they get from family and the Kantian philosophy. But what happens in the generation after that when the balance is further to the left? The point is that the left recognizes that they cannot be upfront with the American people because they would be rejected, so they go for slow steady incremental change. And that is exactly what they are doing.

The point that many don't recognize on this thread is that this a monumental ideological struggle. Most here don't quite recognize it as an ideological struggle. You very well may recognize that, but don't recognize that it is a struggle because you are so confident in your ideology/religion.

This 21 stuff is not the apex, but it is emblematic of it. Most people don't legitimately understand the philosophical (and religious) underpinnings of the struggle.

Let me try to build on your Tolkeinesque handle. Imagine the struggle against evil without the council of Elrond, or the alliances between Rohan and Gondor and the elves and the dwarves. That is what we face...the left is organized and advancing steadily, the right is not. All is not lost, but we do have to recognize that we are in a fight, and we have to organize to fight it.