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SOF Capable Assault Rifle
http://www.strategypage.com/gallery/articles/military_photos_2004122822.asp ^

Posted on 01/31/2005 2:22:22 PM PST by sanchez810

Last year, the U.S. Special Operations Command (SOCOM) issued a specification for the SOF (Special Operations Forces) Combat Assault Rifle (SCAR). At the time, the U.S. Army was also developing a new assault rifle, the XM-8, and it was thought that SOCOM might use a version of the XM-8 for its own needs. SCAR, however, is somewhat different from the XM-8. For one thing, SCAR must be able to quickly change barrels and receivers so that it can fire 5.56mm, 7.62mm (large cartridge, like the M-14 and American medium machine-guns) or the short (AK-47) 7.62mm rounds. Moreover, SCAR has to be even more rugged and reliable (and expensive to build) than the XM-8. As a result, the XM-8 lost out to a custom series of weapons from the Belgium firm, FN Herstal.

SCAR is actually two different rifles, the “light” version (5.56mm) and the “heavy” (7.62mm). Maximum number of weapons to be ordered will be 155,000 (84,000 standard lights, 28,000 closer-quarter combat versions of the light rifle, 12,000 light sniper types, 15,000 standard heavies, 7,000 heavy close-quarters combat conversions of the heavy rifle and 12,000 heavy sniper rifles.)

Meanwhile, the U.S. Army has given all other rifle manufacturers one more chance to submit weapons to compete with the current Heckler & Koch XM-8. This is a sign that official acceptance and mass production is not far away. However, not all of the senior army, or Department of Defense, brass are willing to spend the billions of dollars it will cost to reequip the troops with the XM-8. There should be a decision by next year, however. Meanwhile, SOCOM will have SCAR, even if the army ends up not getting the XM-8.



TOPICS: Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS: banglist; guns
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To: Condor51
The stinking .223 Remington has out lived its usefulness.

I've always thought it inferior and don't know why we couldn't have compromised and built our own 7.62x39 or similar caliber'd platform. Hell, we shoulda saved money and bought AK's.

21 posted on 01/31/2005 3:05:13 PM PST by umgud
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To: Condor51
http://www.world.guns.ru/assault/as59-e.htm

This was the weapon of the future. The US should have the British to develop this.

The M16 was originally developed as 7.62mm, but was dropped.
22 posted on 01/31/2005 3:05:18 PM PST by Perdogg (Rumsfeld for President - 2008)
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To: TChris

Colt lost the manufacturing rights. This (C7) weapon is made for the Canadian Army by Diemaco. The only major difference is that it doesn't have three-round burst but low cycle full auto.


23 posted on 01/31/2005 3:07:23 PM PST by Perdogg (Rumsfeld for President - 2008)
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To: sanchez810

BTTT


24 posted on 01/31/2005 3:08:53 PM PST by Fiddlstix (This Tagline for sale. (Presented by TagLines R US))
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To: TChris
One question: Is no American gun manufacturer able to match H&K or FN for price & quality? I have to think that weapon engineering of this level is within the capability of American companies.

Maybe not. This is a by-product of the National Firearms Act of 1934, which put a then-heavy tax of $200 per full auto gun on any civilian-purchased weapons, and the provision in the '86 FOPA which banned the ATF from collecting any of the $200 tax fees on guns registered after that date (thereby rendering such guns illegal in civilian hands). IOW, no market = no suppliers.

Thank your Congresscritters, esp. the ones with "-D" after their names, for this state of affairs.

25 posted on 01/31/2005 3:16:19 PM PST by Ancesthntr
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To: Condor51

“With the hopped up islamofascists, you need a 'killing' round (like the .308), not a 'wounding' round (concept behind the .223). At least with this new weapon I see a 7.62x39mm version, which is the perfect assault rifle caliber IMHO.”

The 6.5 Grendel would be a better choice than either the 7.62 NATO or the 7.62x39: http://www.65grendel.com/


26 posted on 01/31/2005 3:27:34 PM PST by Ancesthntr
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To: Eric in the Ozarks

beauty is in the eye of the beer-holder.


27 posted on 01/31/2005 3:28:29 PM PST by Rakkasan1 (john f'n kerry-the original 'million dollar baby'.)
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To: Ancesthntr

Most rifle bullets will miss. Carrying more is a good idea, and the 5.56mm lets you do that.

At velocity greater than 2650 fps, the 5.56mm round pitches or yaws, and fragments. The 7.62mmX39 rounds acts like a solid, as does the US made 7.62x51 round. The German made 7.62mm round has a thinner jacket, and also fragments.

The 5.56mm round moves faster than 2650fps out to 300 meters from the 16inch barrel M-16A2. The shorter M-4 carbine only meets this threshold out to 200 meters.

My rifle operating system patent: 6,079,138 permits a 24 inch barrel with a 28 inch weapon. I am developing it with two magazine wells, quick change barrel, and downward ejection path so it can be fired left of right handed. It will be able to convert to almost any caliber: for now I have selected 5.56mmX45, 7.62X51, .45ACP (silenced) and 12 gauge.

It is a variation of the roller delayed blowback system, so there is no gas port to ruin the barrel quick change or make it less accurate.


28 posted on 01/31/2005 3:44:01 PM PST by donmeaker (Burn the UN flag publicly.)
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To: sanchez810

When they first tested the weapon, there were a lot of guys out of Benning who were not impressed.

Seems the thing may be as hard to keep clean as an MP-5.
(GUNK)

Most that have seen both the XM-8 and the SCAR say they would rather keep the colt combat.


29 posted on 01/31/2005 3:45:56 PM PST by ArmyBratproud
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To: donmeaker

The purpose of the .45ACP is to give an option to allow silenced fire out to 300 meters, like the old D'Lisle of WWII. Only self loading or fully automatic.

The 12 gauge with a slug is a great door opener, and with a grenade round can range out to 800 meters, with 7 inches of armor penetration.

The 5.56 is for patrols, where one has to carry lots of ammo far from help.

The 7.62x51 is for mechanized infantry, where your ammunition resupply is as close as your carrier. I understand it is also superior when you want to shoot through cover such as walls and doors.

Solid military bullets are usually not very lethal. If you miss the head, spine or heart, the wounds usually heal quickly. The Spanish uses 7X57mm Mausers and a 6.5 or 6.8 would would have similar performance. Teddy Roosevelt noted, in his book, the reduced effectiveness of the spanish rounds compared to the old .45/70Government or even the .30/40 Krag.


30 posted on 01/31/2005 3:56:27 PM PST by donmeaker (Burn the UN flag publicly.)
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To: sanchez810

6.8mm is basically a .270, but uses the .30 Remington case instead of the .30-06 case like the very famous .270 Winchester.


31 posted on 01/31/2005 3:59:22 PM PST by donmeaker (Burn the UN flag publicly.)
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To: Axlrose
Come to think of it exactly what will replace the current 747's used as Airforce One ?

Airbus A380s


32 posted on 01/31/2005 4:02:49 PM PST by Yo-Yo
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So if one may quickly change both lowers and upper receivers to switch from 5.56 to 7.62 ammo, what's the common component, the butt stock? :-)

This gun is why HK recently opened a production facility in the US (VA).

In speaking with some acquaintances, the 5.56, especially in burst has been doing fairly well in CQB roles, but sure runs out of gas when one wants to reach out and touch someone.

Several versions of the 6.8 have been bouncing around in review for years, nice trade off between the ammo load of the mouse gun and the lethality of the M-14. But the task to get a new cartridge into the military is daunting and entails more than just wounding characteristics. Things like production and fulfillment come also to mind.
33 posted on 01/31/2005 4:13:42 PM PST by larryw408
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To: umgud
Yep. Gen Marshall didn't do us a favor in sqelching the .276 Peterson. ( sarcasm off)
34 posted on 01/31/2005 5:30:25 PM PST by RocketWolf
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To: Yo-Yo

No it won't.


35 posted on 01/31/2005 6:24:06 PM PST by Eric in the Ozarks
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To: Axlrose
Can't America design its own ?

Nope. Civilians can't buy or build them, so there is neither a viable market nor a entrepeneurial base to do so.

Contrast the Barrett 82, which was created by a civilian and marketed mostly to civilians; take away the civilian market for .50BMGs and there won't be any US makers thereof.

Repeal 922(o), and you'll see incredible advancement in US-made MGs.

36 posted on 02/01/2005 8:54:14 AM PST by ctdonath2
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To: Eric in the Ozarks

No, it won't. But, if the contract award stands up in court, Marine 1 will be a European design, and the A380 is larger than the 747 and could accomodate more press without needing a second 'chase' plane for the lesser reporters.

Poliically, though, it'll never happen.


37 posted on 02/01/2005 9:13:42 AM PST by Yo-Yo
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