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To: gobucks; Alamo-Girl; marron; Phaedrus; logos; cornelis; ckilmer; StJacques; PatrickHenry; ...
For though the fame motive plays a big role, at root, the morals debate is driving much of this too.

Oh, I do agree with you there gobucks!

At bottom, "all morality is," is a specification of what is the best way to reconcile the apparent "conflicts" that obtain between God and man, society, and the world -- "world" here being understood, not only as planet Terra or the solar system, but of the entire physical universe altogether. This would be the "material picture." But the animating principle of the universe, it seems to me, comes from God and man, and tends to get externalized in societies. This principle is immaterial in nature. So are Life and consciousness — and all the works derived by humans from same, in the sciences, in literature, in the arts; not to mention the great religions, my own confession being Christian.

Now folks will say, I'm sure, that to make such a sweeping statement is to endue humanity with a significance which it does not deserve. All I can say in reply to that is: The Holy Scriptures advise us otherwise.

And this "fame thing" is a pernicious influence on society, if you were to ask me. I won't say it is necessarily "immoral" in principle; but I would suggest that it is thorough-goingly amoral. And not only that, but a complete waste of time to the extent that it refuses to engage the really serious things of life and the world, from the standpoint both of "the performer," and (worse) the audience.

Thus, to me, it represents a lack of seriousness wherever it may be found, exemplified and amplified by our wonderful "Mainstream Media." And may I also take a moment to thank Academe while I'm at it?

Not!!!

Oh, well. For what it's worth, gobucks. Thanks so much for writing!

978 posted on 01/31/2005 4:17:37 PM PST by betty boop
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To: betty boop; Alamo-Girl; Heartlander
I've posted this or a link to it a couple of times in the last few days -- maybe even on this thread. But if you haven't seen it you ought to read it. Things haven't changed in 400 years. Bacon, of course, is credited as the founder of science.
THE ESSAYS OF FRANCIS BACON

I had rather believe all the fables in the Legend, and the Talmud, and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind. And therefore, God never wrought miracle, to convince atheism, because his ordinary works convince it. OF ATHEISM It is true, that a little philosophy inclineth man's mind to atheism; but depth in philosophy bringeth men's minds about to religion. For while the mind of man looketh upon second causes scattered, it may sometimes rest in them, and go no further; but when it beholdeth the chain of them, confederate and linked together, it must needs fly to Providence and Deity. Nay, even that school which is most accused of atheism doth most demonstrate religion; that is, the school of Leucippus and Democritus and Epicurus. For it is a thousand times more credible, that four mutable elements, and one immutable fifth essence, duly and eternally placed, need no God, than that an army of infinite small portions, or seeds unplaced, should have produced this order and beauty, without a divine marshal. The Scripture saith, The fool hath said in his heart, there is no God; it is not said, The fool hath thought in his heart; so as he rather saith it, by rote to himself, as that he would have, than that he can thoroughly believe it, or be persuaded of it. For none deny, there is a God, but those, for whom it maketh that there were no God. It appeareth in nothing more, that atheism is rather in the lip, than in the heart of man, than by this; that atheists will ever be talking of that their opinion, as if they fainted in it, within themselves, and would be glad to be strengthened, by the consent of others. Nay more, you shall have atheists strive to get disciples, as it fareth with other sects. And, which is most of all, you shall have of them, that will suffer for atheism, and not recant; whereas if they did truly think, that there were no such thing as God, why should they trouble themselves?

981 posted on 01/31/2005 4:25:38 PM PST by Tribune7
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To: betty boop
Thank you oh so very much for all your excellent insights, my dear sister in Christ!

But the animating principle of the universe, it seems to me, comes from God and man, and tends to get externalized in societies. This principle is immaterial in nature. So are Life and consciousness — and all the works derived by humans from same, in the sciences, in literature, in the arts; not to mention the great religions, my own confession being Christian.

So very true and how easily dismissed these days by many ...

1,091 posted on 01/31/2005 10:41:38 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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