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To: RightWhale; Alamo-Girl; marron; Phaedrus; logos; cornelis; ckilmer; StJacques; PatrickHenry; ...
Life is a willful thing once it achieves a certain level of organization, and this should prove that all the attributes are potentially present in the constituents of life. The attributa potentia are present in atoms, in protons, in electrons, in the carriers of electromagnetic force--photons, and in carriers of other forces such as gravity. It's all there, has been there all along and will be there long after our sun cools to a cold, dark lump and we are frozen to near absolute zero.

Let's analyze these statements.

(1) "Life is a willful thing once it achieves a certain level of organization." Granted. But you gloss over the problem of how it gets organized. It seems the attributa potentia ["AP"] are not the cause of the organization. For the AP can be anything, anytime. They are more like the building blocks, or the material, out of which systems both living and non-living are constructed. And what these "AP guys" do basically, following their own instincts I imagine, is simply follow the physical laws. So the question then becomes: Are the physical laws information-rich enough to produce biological behavior? It would appear that the answer to this question is: NO.

Plus i suppose i could mention that to attribute will to what is here an abstraction or totally inexact generalization (or as Yockey might put it, to an algorithm) is to engage in anthropomorphism.

(2) The AP have "been there all along, and will be there long after our sun cools to a cold dark lump...." But there's nothing in this observation to show how they become other than a stochastic process.

(3) Jeepers! You predict the final outcome of our universe here! How am I to understand this as other than a religious statement?

So much to do, so little time.... Thanks for writing, RightWhale.

1,959 posted on 02/08/2005 4:20:32 PM PST by betty boop
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To: betty boop
Are the physical laws information-rich enough to produce biological behavior? It would appear that the answer to this question is: NO.

Which physical laws?

1,960 posted on 02/08/2005 4:25:16 PM PST by WildTurkey (When will CBS Retract and Apologize?)
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To: betty boop
Are the physical laws information-rich enough to produce biological behavior? It would appear that the answer to this question is: NO.

Obviously they are since we are here. At least we think we are here.

1,961 posted on 02/08/2005 4:27:19 PM PST by WildTurkey (When will CBS Retract and Apologize?)
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To: betty boop
For the AP can be anything, anytime.

It can also be nothing. This is originating power. The power is present from the origin of the matter of the universe. If we insist that the word 'power' be restricted to mechanical use, then we can make up another characteristic word for our AP. Life is made from the matter of the universe and the question becomes whether there is something extra that was introduced that was not inherent in the matter of the universe.

We should not worry about whether intelligence is an attribute of the animal nervous system. Plants also exhibit behavior and can be trained. Plants are slower of course. The nervous system speeds things up, but the things are present in plants already. We can admit that plants have intelligence. Can we take another step and admit that microbes also have intelligence? And then another step toward the mineral world eventually arriving at interstellar nebulae and nearly frozen pools of oily water on Titan?

1,967 posted on 02/08/2005 5:12:10 PM PST by RightWhale (Please correct if cosmic balance requires.)
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To: betty boop
the final outcome of our universe

If we leave it to itself as if we didn't exist. We nearly don't exist in the universe anyway. But, if we exercise due diligence and go forth and multiply per instruction, we may become a significant part of the universe and change the final outcome. Right now we can hardly influence a few acres of dirt to grow food for ourselves. Should we sit on our country estates and wait for the inevitable? We don't have long to wait : earth will be uninhabitable in half a billion years and fairly nasty long before then if we don't get up and do something.

1,968 posted on 02/08/2005 5:18:20 PM PST by RightWhale (Please correct if cosmic balance requires.)
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