No Relief in Sight for the Lincoln

Defense Watch ^ | 1/20/2005 | Ed Stanton

[oldsalt]

At least the UN types were relegated to the wardroom.I don't mind the Navy feeding them as long as they stay outta the Chief's Mess!

[texasflower]

No.

[BykrBayb]

Great suggestion. That will attract even more idle women looking for something to fill their days and nights. And not just women either. Okay, so maybe it's not such a good idea.

[Musket]

What happened to the MSM.

Really. How 'bout it. Hello MSM!? Helloooooooooooooooo?!

Oh --- there they are...... What's that they're saying?

Critics say some Christians spread aid and Gospel
(Actual headline from this mornings Chicago Tribune.)

As if that's a bad thing. Wouldn't want to give these people a hand-up out of the seveneth century.

Gosh, where would we be without the MSM?
Probably a lot better off.

[StoneGiant]

[USNBandit]

Yeah, we don't want them eating any good food. I just hope the officer's mess doesn't get stuck with the bill. Otherwise it's Chilimac and Tuna caserol for the rest of cruise. We missed an unrep one time and were eating grilled cheese sandwiches for three days straight.

[USNBandit]

I was just joking about the description of aviators eating breakfast. Due to crew day, night flying, and general aviator lifestyle, very few of us got up before lunch.

I was in CVW-5 back in the late 90's in USS Independence.

[pabianice]

These are the same pukes who burned-down the ROTC Building at UMass in 1970. Man, how I wish they'd finally die of old age and impacted bile.

[Smartass]

The MSM still doesn't get it. CBS is still in shock,
in spite of the firings, still hasn't fessed up. Compared to FOX, CNN, MSNBC, and ABC viewers are down. CNN is experimenting with pro and con arguments like FOX. The liberal TV and left wing newspaper business is slowly losing to the Internet, and of course the bloggers.

[speekinout]

Not at risk to our security though.

Of course not. But I don't see how letting the UN eat and sleep on board is a security risk. Maybe a nuisance for the troops, but not a risk.

Maybe we should pull the ship back into open waters

I thought that had already been done. Indonesia had the choice of allowing training exercises and getting more help, or not. They chose not.

[_Jim]

From:

http://www.haloscan.com/comments/diplomad/110627783512159197/

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The only problem I had with the "Ed Stanton" letter is that it is posted on Hackworth's SFTT (Soldiers For the Truth) website. Which makes me suspicious of it, though the observations do correlate. (I know too much about Hackworth ever to trust him.)

I'm a ret. SpecOps officer with just under 28 years service, enlisted and officer.

BTW, the reason the ship's "brass" (a phrase that makes me suspicious of hackworth) might have put up with the tourists is because they had been ordered to.

Bad order, though.
Doc Obiwan | 01.21.05 - 1:30 pm | #

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_Jim

[_Jim]

From:


http://www.rontini.com/cgi-bin/eboard40/index2.cgi?frames=no&board=main&mode=Current&threads=Collapse&message=25136&index=

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I challange the veracity of this column. No O-ganger in the USN would ever get away with writing such dribble.

I appreciate the crux of his arguement... that VIP's waste more money and time touring disaster areas that could be better directed toward relief efforts..... but I think it is the same as when our President tours a site in this country, with all his entourage of Secret Service, etc. However, it seems that this is a necessary evil for such high level relief efforts.

The part about them not wanting to sleep in-country under primitive conditions reminds me of when a local Minister and his wife went on a "mission" trip to Africa. I forgot which country, but they ended up in a really outback location at a small Christian church. The congregation, which didn't have a pot to p** in, nor a window to throw it out of, took up a collection and gave it to the minister after the service, who took it and drove to the nearest city and got a hotel room with air conditioning and stayed the nite. I have always had a problem with how some people manage "relief" or "mission efforts. In my mind you should be no better off than those you are assisting. To do otherwise, you are taking away from food or shelter that would be available to them.

As far as him being at sea for an extended period of time and getting no training value from it, this guy better grow up.... US military missions are not all killing bad guys, sometimes it is saving good guys.

I hope this blog is not well published, it is a black eye on our country's image.

Steamboat sends

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_Jim

[_Jim]

And another:

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Doc Obiwan:

I'm with you. I doubt the "Ed Stanton" letter was actually written by someone who's on the Lincoln. Yes, it's got details that are convincing.

But I think the details came from someone on the ship; the editorializing from a friend, family member or retiree who was indignant about what they'd heard was going on there.

I just don't want to believe a serving Naval officer would make such naive comments. I hate to think that one of the Lincoln's officers would blame the outsiders for being there; obviously if anyone should be blamed for their presence, it's the higher-ups who gave them permission to come aboard. The Navy knows its own rules; it should have assigned them to the enlisted mess or made arrangemens in advance to reimburse the officers' mess for their meals. The indignation expressed that the ship's routine had been interrupted verged on the childish. The letter's overall tone made me feel embarrassed for the writer.

jerseycityjoan | Email | 01.24.05 - 8:19 am |

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_Jim

[_Jim]

Consistancy error when contrasted against the known facts:

   "Today we have pilots who have now been 
    over 25 days without a trap due to being 
    unable to use Indonesian airspace to train"

He tripped up here, I think.

They didn't GET THERE until a week after, or so, and this letter was dated the 20th ... that would make what - more like 20 days once they received their orders to steam?

Methinks the author didn't know and didn't follow up on getting his dates right.

[E Rocc]

I just got a copy of this e-mail, from a normally non-political friend. It's making the rounds to be sure.

-Eric

[MineralMan]

This is interesting, because of the connection between the names Lincoln and Ed Stanton:

---

In the Johnson impeachment, the principal charge was that the President had fired Edwin Stanton, Lincoln's popular Secretary of War

---

That's the Andrew Johnson impeachment, you see. The pseudonym used in this "email" is way too clever, IMO, and should be seen as a point against this email's veracity.

[KasigiYabuSama]

"The pseudonym used in this 'email' is way too clever, IMO, and should be seen as a point against this email's veracity."

That is indeed a point, but it's largely irrelevant to the wider context beyond the article itself, to wit: The ethics of making donations to a country that is openly aligned with al-Qaida and hostile to America and Western Civilization on the one hand, and the pressing question of the continued viability of the International Tyrants' Day Care Center, Manhattan Branch, on the other. D'OH! - I should probably call it "the U.N."

I concur with others here on the rather obvious point that we the United States should have discontinued all further aid to Indonesia immediately following their demand that our soldiers be disarmed while on Indonesian soil. It really doesn't matter whether it's cold, hard cash or direct supplies - supplies are marketable and therefore readily transferable into currency, at which point we lose all control as to recipient organizations - al-Qaida, f'rinstance.

And it seems almost pathologically redundant to say that the United States needs to take decisive action in either reforming the ITDCC Manhattan, er, UN, or to withdraw from it completely and permanently along with our allies, including booting it off of American shores, completely and permanently.

We should send that pack of rats an ultimatum, something along the lines of:

"Dear Kofi, Boys and Girls: If you do not wish the United States to sever all ties with your organization including the Manhattan real estate it currently occupies, you must henceforth require of all member nations without exception the core recognition of Individual Rights, including but not limited to:

- the freedom of conscience;
- of speech;
- of press;
- of private property;
- of association;
- of trade;
- of due process, trial by jury and a prohibition of all cruel and unusual punishment;
- of internal migration and emigration;
- of representative government and pluralism."

You'll notice that a.) these demands are not in themselves unreasonable in the slightest and b.) since there's not a hockey player's chance in hell of this list being agreed to by that organization in whole or in part, this proposal may be construed as being rigged toward the withdrawal option.

This is intentional. 8^]

[ncdave4life]

I'm not there, so I have no firsthand information at all,
but in this article Lt. Cmdr. Jeffrey Vorce says that the
"No Relief in Sight for the Lincoln" article is inaccurate:

Lt. Cmdr. Jeffrey Vorce:
http://www.sftt.org/cgi-bin/csNews/csNews.cgi?database=Defensewatch%20Special%205.db&command=viewone&op=t&id=3&rnd=318.94677583608233

"Ed Stanton" (pen name)'s article was also on sftt.org:
http://www.sftt.org/cgi-bin/csNews/csNews.cgi?database=DefenseWatch%202005%2edb&command=viewone&id=34

-Dave

[KasigiYabuSama]

Again, while it's important to have the facts on the original email's validity, the points that are raised within the article itself about 1.) aiding a hostile Islamic nation and 2.) continuing the charade of support for the UN, are worthy points in themselves.

If in fact the article is a fabrication, it's a good object lesson on the importance of honesty in activism - reality has a habit of relentlessly blowing away falsity, thereby undermining the effectiveness of any effort that attempts to fake reality. Hopefully a lot of people on the net will read and digest the ideas presented in the article anyway, in spite of its author's foolish attempt to pass it off as authentic.

[Standard disclaimer: No, I didn't write the article.]

[basoon]

>> Now do all you libs feel better about the USA

I really don't know if it's fair blaming the libs for this... The Senate, Congress, Presidency, and certainly the Pentagon are all firmly in Republican hands.
I imagine it was George Bush who ordered the Linoln to Indonesian waters.
Unless, of course, you are insinuating that our president is a Lib?