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To: balrog666; betty boop; Alamo-Girl; PatrickHenry

It appears to me that self-replication occurs at a fairly low level in chemistry, almost as if nature were biased towards self-replication.

I don't know exactly what to make of that, but I would like to know exactly what the difference is between a universe in which a bias towards self-replication is "natural" and one in which it is exactly the same except "designed". I mean, after the moment of creation, what's the difference.


539 posted on 01/22/2005 1:42:34 PM PST by js1138
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To: js1138
I mean, after the moment of creation, what's the difference.

It means that when the salmon swims upstream to spawn, the cosmos rejoices.

540 posted on 01/22/2005 2:00:12 PM PST by PatrickHenry (<-- Click on my name. The List-O-Links for evolution threads is at my freeper homepage.)
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To: js1138; PatrickHenry; betty boop
Thank y’all for the pings to your discussion and thank you for the link, PatrickHenry!

It was an interesting read – very much focused on the von Neumann challenge. Most every article was a computer simulation or theoretical model. The others were artificial chemistry and synthetic molecules. Of those, the Rebek was the most interesting of course. Rebek’s claim to fame was AATE, a synthetic molecule which could replicate in a solution which consisted of its own components (chloroform solution of amines and esters). The replication itself gains no information or complexity, allows no new reactants, and does not represent the environment which would exist in primordial earth scenarios (hydro or clay).

Synthetic molecules and artificial chemistry are quite useful in many ways but, obviously, neither are “natural” and thus are not particularly useful in either defining the difference between life and non-life/death – or completing a model for abiogenesis – unless of course one is focused on self-replication as “the” primary characteristic of life.

Personally, I think such a focus is ill-advised because purely inorganic chemicals can have the appearance of mindless self-replication, for instance Self-Propagating High-Temperature Synthesis.

IMHO, the intended feature in natural life is poorly characterized by the simple phrase, “self-replication”. It is self-replication to be sure, but more significantly – at the global governance of the whole organism (bacteria, amoeba, bird, cat, man) – it is the “will to live”, the “want to live” or “struggle to survive” The successful communication of the molecular machinery which comprise the organism is organized to that purpose. Self-replication is moot without life.

Incidentally, when we were going down the Shannon-Weaver path in investigating abiogenesis, self-replication was not on the menu for research - the issues were the rise of information (the successful communications itself), autonomy, semiosis and complexity.

547 posted on 01/22/2005 11:15:55 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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