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To: Don'tMessWithTexas
There is a significant "sect" of Darwinists who use the supposed evidence of evolution as proof that there is no God and we are nothing more than an accumulation of atoms.

You are confusing atheism with what you call "Darwinism". Atheism is a belief system, a "religion". Evolution is not.

Some atheists use Evolution to support their arguments, as Christians have been known to use science to support their arguments as well. That does not make science a part of Christianity, nor Evolution a part of the religion of atheism.

RadioAstronomer posted a very long piece at #263 that I notice no believer has responded to. No doubt afraid to actually consider the arguments RA brought out.

From post 263: How can we determine on a pure faith based belief system, which is the correct model or “truth”? When I ask this question I get answers like; the Bible told me, my pastor stated it, or I prayed and God himself told me. Well, if there were immutable truths, wouldn't’t everyone get the same answer when they prayed or read the same book? Since there is an ongoing fierce argument between the different religions, obviously this is not the case.

You said "Bible believing Christians admit that the biblical account of creation is a fact. That is based on their willingness to accept the word of God as 'fact'".

So to you, it is true, just because you believe it is. It's just faith. That's all.

Evolution and other sciences are based on centuries of examining physical evidence. Stuff you can hold in your hand. Not just the paper pages of a book printed in Nashville that has no proof of who wrote it. You, and probably most everybody you know, just believe it's true, and that's the end of it. You have a consensus of believers around you to support you, and it's "truth".

I've argued this issue from the perspective that you don't need to abandon your faith in God just to understand that Evolution is fact. All you need to do is accept that there is confusion about what the true interpretation of Genesis 1 and 2 is. That's it.

The fact that books and web sites are devoted to telling you what Genesis "really" means, ought to give you a clue that it's really not clear exactly what it does mean.

And finally. I've made the point innumerable times that I believe it's a stupid idea for Christians to force schools to teach ID, because their young children will be forced to defend their faith as you have just done here. Will they be up to it? Or will they decide that Jesus is just a younger Santa Claus, and will never believe in Him again?

I'd like you to tell me whether you think I'm right or wrong. Is teaching ID a good idea, knowing that a discussion like we're having today will be forced on your children? And wouldn't changing your closed mind about the meaning of Genesis be a much smarter thing to do?

287 posted on 01/19/2005 3:54:42 PM PST by narby (If a wise man has an argument with a fool, the fool only rages and laughs, and there is no quiet.)
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To: narby
Atheism is a belief system, a "religion".

Just to quibble, I would call it a lack of one, a specific one.

293 posted on 01/19/2005 4:16:41 PM PST by balrog666 (A myth by any other name is still inane.)
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To: narby
Again you disparage others by claiming they have a closed mind, when in fact anyone reading this thread could make the same allegation about you.

But to your argument: The Bible believing Christian says that they believe the Genesis account because they believe that the Bible is true. And it is true because God's word says that it is true. In other words, they accept that the Bible is self-authenticating. You may not agree with that form of epistemology, but at least they are up front about it.

OTOH, why do you believe scientists' interpretation of evidence? Is it because of the strength of their "evidence" or because their interpretation seems plausible or because it is the only logical explanation of things? Why do you accept evolution as fact? Cannot one's belief in evolution be because they think that evolution is self-authenticating? It seems to me that belief in evolution is just as much a matter of faith as belief in creationism.

I do not believe that it is the role of government to educate children. It is the role of parents. But, if we are to have true neutrality in education, neither creation, ID or Darwinism should be taught in the public schools.

Now please address my question regarding Exodus 20 that I raised in my previous post. If you refuse to do so, I would suggest that you not use the "confusion" of Gen. 1 and 2 as justification for your views.

305 posted on 01/19/2005 5:17:01 PM PST by Don'tMessWithTexas
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