`Newer' math begins in fall in grade schools

ALBANY, N.Y. (AP) — Students and teachers beginning in the fall will face a newer kind of math in pre-kindergarten through eighth grade.

The state Board of Regents this week adopted the new policy for schools statewide that will include teaching algebra concepts starting in the fifth grade and quadratic equations in eighth grade. The teaching of those subjects in depth has mostly been reserved for high school.

"There is no question in our minds that this will position New York state well internationally," said William Brosnan, superintendent of Northport schools on Long Island and chairman of the Regents' panel on overhauling math.

Its findings were sent to teachers and other educators statewide. The panel received 2,000 responses and incorporated many of the concerns and recommendations, Brosnan said Wednesday.

The goal, said Brosnan, is to provide a clear, sequential math education in the lower grades that gives a deep understanding of math, adding the concept has proven effective in Singapore, Japan and several other countries.

Critics have argued the new standards may be too challenging. Others argue the increased use of calculators, under strict conditions, could weaken some math skills.

But Brosnan said the new program will clarify what is to be taught and when. That's critical for building an understanding of the subject, he said, rather than just knowing how to follow formulas.

He said a recent national study proves the need. The Thomas B. Fordham Foundation gave the state a "C" for its curriculum content and a "D" for clarity. This new system changes that, he said.

PART I When I say EVERYONE will be herded into these algebra classes, it is because by high school, just about everyone takes algebra. When there are students who have no need for algebra, and less aptitude for college, this doesn't make much sense. And this push for everyone to fall into the same programs is part of the equality of results liberal movement, where the smart are held back to the average and the dumb are the only ones sped up. This is actually becoming a result of the No child's behind left act too with the one size fits all mantra and testing, testing, testing. I too believe that different children should be given different opportunities and I try to provide that for my students. Almost every teacher I know recognizes that and strives to give kids different opportunities on different levels, even while doing the same thing. I might expect a few sentences in writing a story for one of my students just learning to write, but a page or two and more complex sentence structure from a more advanced student. The best students I have are those that enthusiastically participate in all activities and find opportunities in all sorts of ways to learn new things and ways to be challenged. I also believe that we have become obsessed with having to "provide for their needs." And too often teachers are expected to or do provide some of those that are lacking in the home. My brothers, sisters, and I were all top students (as well as my mom and dad) and we never worried about others having to satisfy our academic needs, we supplied them ourselves. And yes, we were in those classes with those "dumb kids" you make reference to so strongly. I and others objected strongly to OBE, and yes it didn't work, but it didn't stop us from learning either. If you'd like to tell me that the administration of your school won't respond to parent pressure to put their unqualified kids in the class, you have a gutsy administrator. Wonderful. If you'd like to tell me that you believe there won't be pressure on the school to push ALL kids into this early start program from the excluded parents, you've got a very special school. Enjoy it. I for one am GLAD if that's the case. But don't think it's at all typical. Your insulting reply doesn't make your experience the average. It just shows how truly sheltered you are, that you believe that a school running a program like this is bulletproof from normal political b.s. You seem to have the opinion that kids should be given a chance to be kids and not pushed too much too early. I agree. Though I do push my first graders quite a bit (I won't go into detail), I am not making little Einsteins out of them either. I may be sheltered in the fact that I have a roof over my head, but I am there in the trenches doing the best I can to educate kids and I spend thousands of hours of my own time each year to help out my students too. It is doubly insulting to me. I get tired of being blamed for everything except Armageddon--oops I think we've been blamed for that too. I didn't even say I completely agreed with the program. I don't. I have never heard of it. We may not even be getting the complete story. After all, the media often does just that, doesn't it? I just get tired of hearing those who value negativity and the blame game above anything else.

No, I have a very positive attitude, actually. It's just very cynical about government and public education, because it's borne out. Oops, I didn't mean you had a negative attitude about everything. I too, have been cynical about things at different times in my life. In a way, I guess you can say that I am cynical about those who complain (especially against education, but actually in general). Yes, there are a lot of bad things going on in the world, but it is fortunate that we in this country have the luxuries of being cynical towards government and education. If you go outside the U.S., you realize that we do indeed live in a great country. We are fortunate to have what we do have and the opportunities here that exist. My father and mother taught me to be thankful for what I have. I have always had what I needed, though hardly anything I want. I cringe when I see adults whine about not getting their way or my neighbor complaining about not getting four vacations a year. We have more opportunities and choices than ever before. Yet, we seem to be getting more selfish and wanting something more. I hardly ever get the way I want. In fact, I have good reason now to be bitter about a lot of things. My life changed completely in one night two years ago and it hasn't been the same since. I could have used it as an opportunity to be mad at the world, decry my religion, become cynical etc. But I have tried to use it as a learning opportunity and to find those precious nuggets of life that are out there. A student I had had cancer at the time. He never complained ONCE during his short life. I figured if he could do that, then my own circumstances were not so bad too. I try to learn what I can from the people around me. I almost never get what I want out of life, but I keep trying to make the best of it. I have learned to appreciate the bounty and opportunities that I do have, though I may not have some of the luxuries that others have. I do have a roof over my head, running water, a car, a job I enjoy, etc. It's those I try to appreciate first when I think about continually wanting more. If you have children, be thankful for it. That is my biggest desire--to have a family. Those that have the privilege to raise them should be thanking God every day for it. Though I may never have that opportunity, I do try to see what I can do to make a difference in other people's kids' lives. I don't teach for any political agenda or just to get a paycheck. I teach in the hope that I can help put something positive in a child's life. I'm sorry if I insulted you. I get insulted myself from so much negativity going around. Yet, I do try to learn from each person and apply that in my own life. You may take my comments with a grain of salt and will probably rail further against the absurdity of some of my comments. That is your choice. For me, I am trying just to do the best I can to improve myself despite my many weaknesses (I'm still trying to get that splinter out of my own eye:).

Thank you. I can understand exactly what you are saying, because I have found that the few parents I've heard complaints from, are the ones never found at parent teacher conferences, or any of the other functions the schools and the districts run. Those with our attitude who do attend those things, don't seem to have many complaints, beyond the normal grumblings about weather related delays and closings, or "Not another holiday." I get very discouraged on these threads by the nastiness extended toward public school teachers and parents who send their children to public school. No system is perfect, and there is good and bad in all. I'll take good teacher in a public school any day over a poor one in another form of edication program. I spent 12 years in Catholic schools.........and had my fair share of problem teachers. Keep up the good work, FRiend...........and know there are parents with kids in public schools that truly appreciate you and the majority who are like you. WOW!!!!!! People like you are truly why I teach. I think a lot of parents who try to get involved and show that they really and truly care have your attitude. I have some of those types of parents of my own students. They are the ones who have the most influence with me and who I appreciate very much. There are some who do work, but it's that support that I truly value (that any teachers value). Your comments ring so true. I had a teacher say to me that to become a teacher today, you really do have to care about kids because the baggage isn't worth it. We aren't trying to spread any political agenda, just trying to make a difference in kids' lives. I absolutely love my job and the people I associate with. The parents sometimes become my friends and supporters during the year and their kids "my kids" (I have none of my own). I am becoming an endangered species, being a white male primary grade teacher, though. Yes, there may be good and bad teachers, but we can learn form almost any. My parents did not like my fifth grade teacher. Yet, he was one of my favorites. He taught me a lot about being honest in even simple things. I remember the football games we played against another class, the hard math he gave us, "finally" winning an art contest, and his "red hot specials" where we got pops for doing good on academics and other things (I give my kids happy meals for reaching a second grade level). Thank you so much. Your comments are worth a lot in pay.

First, a few paragraphs would make for easier reading of your post. HTML for that is just like the HTML for italics, except with a p.

Second, I think you read me wrong. I think kids SHOULD be pushed. I just don't think that kids should be pushed in the same classrooms with other students who widely diverge in ability, and that is far too often the case in public schools. I think that grouping kids is a good idea, but a better idea is to let kids learn from the teacher at the appropriate skill level, and expect good classroom behavior at all times. If you do the latter, you could have 5-year-olds studying with 10-year-olds. The problem is that most schools, public and private, don't insist on the latter, and rarely do the former, before high school.

First, a few paragraphs would make for easier reading of your post. HTML for that is just like the HTML for italics, except with a p.

I do know that, but I usually don't have too much time to respond and neglect that feature.

Second, I think you read me wrong. I think kids SHOULD be pushed. I just don't think that kids should be pushed in the same classrooms with other students who widely diverge in ability, and that is far too often the case in public schools. I think that grouping kids is a good idea, but a better idea is to let kids learn from the teacher at the appropriate skill level, and expect good classroom behavior at all times. If you do the latter, you could have 5-year-olds studying with 10-year-olds. The problem is that most schools, public and private, don't insist on the latter, and rarely do the former, before high school.

I do think kids should be pushed to an extent and do that with my own students. Yes, there are often kids in the same class who vary widely in ability. I have some kids who are reading on a fifth grade level and some who are just beginning to read in my first grade class. To an extent, there is ability grouping, but this is limited somewhat because of notion years ago (often by parents) that doing so hurt self-esteem. I won't go into that.

I think that in high school and college, kids are better prepared socially for such "grouping." There are indeed other factors to consider beyond just one's academic level. I had a neighbor who was a child genius, but who was very low on an emotional and social scale.

I'm not saying anything one way or the other, but I do know that my high kids do benefit in my classroom from others and they in turn, serve as an asset to other children. It seems like today, there is movement afoot by a lot of segments of society to just be with others of their own kind, academic level, political persuasion, race, or whatever (one of the hallmarks of the education liberals to get away from the 'bad kids'). We all can benefit from one another. I learn many things from many different people and gain new insights too. Such happens every year when I talk to different parents and kids. I also learned much from the so-called "lower kids" I went to school with, and no we're not talking about drugs, smoking, and drinking (things I've never done, nor do I plan to). Please note I am NOT referring to anything considering diversity or homosexuals or anything like that.

If there were sufficient parent support, some of what you suggest could be tried. However, no two parents are the same though many want to be satisfied. It has become more difficult to do so under the no child's behind left act.

Enough for now I guess....

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.