Posted on 01/10/2005 4:02:34 PM PST by Tailgunner Joe
I can think of some pretty good looking ones.....LOL
You got this point ... see post #117 .. pretty much blows your thought right off the map. Hell England has gone to war with other democracies ... like Finland(WWII), The Boer State(1905), and the USA (War of 1812)
And for the record Brit, 5 people voting is not a democracy, that would be an oligarchy (rule by select few)
ExPatinFrance doesn't get it.
"Europe is just doing what the U.S. already does, except for them it is countries banding together and for us it is states."
Comparing the EU and the US is comparing apples and oranges. There is a huge difference.
The US is one people under one Constitution. Americans share a common history, common culture, common language and common values. People have come here from all over the world, but they become Americans, b y choice, not by coercion.
Almost all believe in the same economic system.... Free enterprise Capitalism .
Americans hold a shared belief system which is basically "the less government the better" and believe in individual rights and freedoms, and the rule of law. We share a common legal system and a shared belief in the US Constitution.
No "supra-governmental" law governs how farmers in Vermont make their cheese,nor how farmers in Kansas how they raise their cattle.
Europeans, especially the British, should look before they leap into this abyss.
The next step? World Court? World Government?
Not on our watch!
That is pure Brussels propoganda, trade has not picked up as a result of the Zero, trade has fallen.
The one great selling point of the Zero, has not taken place.
Then what about unemployment, a mere 10.8 in Germany and 9.9 in France and neither figure includes all the people on "make work" schemes, which probably increase both those figures by 50 %. The EU average unemployment rate is near 9%.
So on a simple economic basis, it is a shambles, it cannot provide jobs for its citizens, the one role any decent society should try to achieve.
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Somehow, I overlooked this post. It was something I had been meaning to get to, but I got sidetracked by the war bit. :)
I agree 100%.
What freedoms have you lost? It is in the text of the article. Economic policy with the EU funny money and immigration policy. How would you like to be overrun by Muslims with no say in the matter??
LOL. Point taken. :)
That's what I've been trying to say, as well. It's amazing that they are overlooking all of this. For a lot of reasons. They have facts staring them in the face that it's ALREADY not working very well, and they want to plunge in even further?
Scary.
Very true. However, he had plenty of yes-men that weren't standing in his way...if not downright encouraging him. Folks are overlooking the fact that Hilter had his little minions, and the cooperation of the people.
They elected him, and the let him take the powers he did, so to my mind, it's close enough to not matter.
If one wishes to argue that Hitler had popular support in 1939, that is certainly true.
If one wishes to argue that Germany was a democracy in 1939, that is certainly false.
OK, OK. I concede the point. :) But I do have to add that I don't think many Germans objected to him taking on a dictatorial role. Either from fear or greed or apathy.
1st October 2000
The European Convention on Human Rights, a non-EU convention accepted by all the countries of Europe, was incorporated into British law.
The Charter of Fundamental Rights is, simply, an imperialist document. It is defined by the Commission as 'the central element of a process giving the European Union a constitution'. Its adoption would see the greatest ever transfer of power to make choices over social and economic policy from elected politicians to unelected judges ever seen in Britain.
Unlike Magna Carta, it contains the infamous and iniquitous Article 53, which states that the EU itself is free to violate the 'Fundamental Rights' of the people if it should be in the interests of the EU to do.
Unlike Magna Carta, which is an entrenched and irrevocable bill, not an act of parliament, and which is fundamental to common law, which presumes our freedoms and rights save where they are proscribed as interfering with another's freedoms, the Charter presumes to grant us freedoms and rights and retains the right to withdraw them.
--Greg Lance - Watkins.
The EU constitution establishes enumerated rights instead of unalienable rights. That means the only freedom you get is granted to you by your government, instead of you having all the freedoms which are unalienable freedoms. Your government, inviolation of the fundamental freedoms enumerated in the Charter, spies on you with cameras everywhere, is restricting your freedom of mobility with "traffic calming" that creates monster traffic jams and roadway deaths, is undermining your culture because the charter gives full rights to "third nation" workers who come to your country as it gives "nationals".
You should read the charter and understand the implied powers that the charter gives to the EU. It should make you very nervous for your children and grandchildren if not for yourself.
"It's basically a market of 450 million people instead (in my case) 50 million. Money and Peace, what's not to like?"
Dude, the thread is about the proposed constitution, not the current set-up that you enjoy. Have you read the proposed constitution that you may/may not be living under soon? Therein lies the answer to your question about what rights you may or may not have lost.
My experience in several parts of Europe is that nobody has even read the thing. How can you say anything good or bad about it if you haven't read it?
If you have, GREAT! Again, more power to you if a huge, socialist state is something you want to create!
Here are some "freedoms" enumerated in the Charter of European Rights
Everyone has the right to the protection of personal data concerning him or her.
BUT
Such data must be processed fairly for specified purposes and on the basis of the consent of the person concerned or some other legitimate basis laid down by law.
Everyone is equal before the law.
BUT
The principle of equality shall not prevent the maintenance or adoption of measures providing for specific advantages in favour of the under-represented sex.
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