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To: stremba
The inquisition gets bad press for several reasons, the most major of which is that its history was mainly written by the English i.e. by the main adversaries of Spain. Nobody looks good in the other guy's history books.

Again, as I've read it, the main purpose of it was ridding Spain of Islam, and I cannot blame anybody for wanting to do that.

Other than that, evolution amounts to claims that life arose from inanimate matter via a series of fortuitous accidents, and that afterwards, progressively more complex and sophisticated life forms arose via mutation and "natural selection". Aside from denying any role in the creation of life to God or anything outside our material world, this doctrine denies any basis for ethics, Christian or otherwise, as Sir Arthur Keith notes. The only conception of "good" which there could logically be under such a system, would be things leading to the evolutionary success of the particular group in question.

Again, Christianity and evolution are utterly incompatible.

159 posted on 01/07/2005 6:51:58 AM PST by judywillow
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To: judywillow
evolution amounts to claims that life arose from inanimate matter via a series of fortuitous accidents

Evolution makes no such claim. In fact evolution makes no claim at all about how life arose. In that respect, it's compatible with the idea that God created life.

more complex and sophisticated life forms arose via mutation and "natural selection".I can't argue with this statement, but you notice it says nothing about whether or not God played a role. God could have caused the appropriate mutations, for example, and then natural selection ensured that these mutations survived in the gene pool of a given organism.

denying any role in the creation of life to God or anything outside our material world, this doctrine denies any basis for ethics, Christian or otherwise, as Sir Arthur Keith notes. The only conception of "good" which there could logically be under such a system, would be things leading to the evolutionary success of the particular group in question.

Again, evolution neither denies nor affirms a role for God or anything outside the material realm. Evolution is neutral on this subject because it's a scientific theory. God is outside of the scope of science. Evolution says nothing whatsoever about ethics. Evolution simply says that those creatures who have traits that are best suited to their environments will be the ones that pass those traits on, and therefore those will be the traits that are commonly found in a given species. It doesn't say that this is good, bad or otherwise. It is not an ethical judgement. Even given that this does represent an ethical judgement, it does not logically follow that the only "good" will be an out and out cutthroat competition among organisms of a given species. Those traits that are most beneficial to the SPECIES are the ones that will be selected. Altruism, symbiosis, justice and other such traits can have benefit from a purely evolutionary perspective. Furthermore, none of this is an argument against evolution. Even if evolution is completely and utterly evil, it still could be true. Evolution may be contradictory to your personal beliefs, but it most certainly is not contradictory to Christianity in general. If that's not true, then please show me the logical contradiction between the idea that species arise from changing allele frequencies in a population's gene pool and the idea that Jesus Christ is the son of God who died on the cross to redeem our sins. As far as I can tell, that statement is pretty much the only thing on which ALL Christians can agree. Everything else is doctrinal arguments, which is a religious, not a scientific question.

163 posted on 01/07/2005 7:16:06 AM PST by stremba
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To: judywillow
You have some interesting comments and questions about the Freeper Science Squad. Ran across your name in one of their chats/threads ; silly mocking you over something about gays.

Regarding the Inquisition, IMO they'd have a lot of bad press even without the English, but the existence of an independent England did allow scientific inquiry to proceed without having to worry about the Pope. Giordano Bruno was burned (in Rome) for refusing to shut up about about a heliocentric universe. Gallileo was "shown the instruments", a kind of cease and desist order in prelude to their being used - Kepler's mother as well, I believe. Tip of the iceberg? I don't know. In Spain many converted Jews faced the Inquisition after expulsion of Jews in 1492 - suspected of secretly practicing Judaism.

In Goa , the Portuguese adopted a scorched earth policy.
.... The inquisitors in Goa became the most fanatic and violent of the Portuguese Catholic Church.
.....
Even the Viceroys of India were afraid of the Inquisition.,
......
The inquisition, this tribunal of fire, thrown on the surface of the globe for the scourge of humanity, this horrible institution, which will eternally cover with shame its authors, fixed its brutal domicile in the fertile plains of the Hindustan. On seeing the monster everyone fled and disappeared, Moguls, Arabs, Persians, Armenians, and Jews. The Indians even, more tolerant and pacific, were astounded to see the God of Christianism more cruel than that of Mohammed, deserted the territory of the Portuguese and went to the lands of the Muslims, with whom time had made peaceful living possible, in spite of the fact that they (Indians) had received from them enormous and incalculable evils.



Goans were still 35% Catholic in 2003, but Catholics were much more prevelant prior to the takeover by India. Here's a quote from an article about Goan identity - I lost the url due to sloppy use of Mozilla tabs:
When it got liberated, everything changed drastically. There was an influx of people from other states and our cultural heritage deteriorated. Goans, who were 5 lakh originally, increased to 7.5 lakh in 1971, swelled to 10 lakh in 1981 and today the population is 13 lakh.
221 posted on 01/11/2005 11:26:06 AM PST by mista science (Gee Whillikers)
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