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To: k2blader
I agree the Moral Law (part of which is "Do not murder", for instance) is eternal. I'm not sure what you mean by pastoral commands. Are those things taught by church leaders that are not taken from the Bible?

Kind of. The same principle would apply to both Catholics and Protestants, but I'll give you an example from Catholicism. At one point in time the Church instructed Catholics to abstain from meat on Fridays as a form of mortification in order to bring to mind, in honor of, and in unifying ourselves with Christ's sacrifice on the Cross on Good Friday. But since for some cultures meat is a rarity, abstaining from meat on Fridays did not represent a sacrifice. So the Church changed the discipline, instructing Catholics to choose their form of mortification.

In other words, pastoral commands are provisional and contingent upon temporal exigencies. We can see in the Old Testament a clear distinction between divine commands related to the eternal, natural law, and divine commands that were provisional and pastoral. Perhaps the most famous example of the latter would be kosher dietary requirements.

Excellent Scripture selection, but I'm not sure what your point is. Yes, Jesus has fulfilled the Law, in every meaning of the word, because He was and is the only perfect person to have walked this earth.

Again, because of Christ, we do not live under the Old Testament law anymore:

In the same way, after the supper [Jesus] took the cup, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you."
- Luke 22:20

We certainly do, except that Christ's demands for us are now greater. Not only are we prohibitted from doing bad things (the Decalogue), but we are obligated to do good things. "Love your neighbor as yourself." "You will know a tree by its fruit." We will be judged by what we do.

Matthew 25:31-46

“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’ “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’ “The King will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.’ “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’ “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’ “He will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’ “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”


683 posted on 01/06/2005 10:51:35 AM PST by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: Aquinasfan

Argh. I was trying to preview my reply to your #683 when the webpage timed out and my entire reply disappeared into nothingness. I'll try to retype it later this weekend.


687 posted on 01/08/2005 2:23:13 AM PST by k2blader (It is neither compassionate nor conservative to support the expansion of socialism.)
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To: Aquinasfan

Sorry for the late post. My original one was probably worded better, but I'll try to sum up here briefly.

Thank you for your explanation of pastoral commands. I'm familiar with the concept of provisional law--I've also heard it called ceremonial law.

Reading the Bible, it's clear that God set down all of the laws, which would include the Moral Law, ceremonial law and civil law.

When I said "We do not live under the Old Testament law (note the small 'l') anymore", I was referring to the ceremonial law, which Jesus as High Priest has made obsolete.

Also, I do not believe the commands God gave to specific people to be fruitful and multiply are any part of the Moral, ceremonial or civil law. They are not laws. They are separate covenants God made with those specific people at those specific times.


689 posted on 01/12/2005 9:41:10 AM PST by k2blader (It is neither compassionate nor conservative to support the expansion of socialism.)
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