I did not commit to anything. Then you brought forth examples of why the framers set up their government the way they did to offer proof that they thought man was basically bad. (Never saying once how you thought this would prove that they believed only God could redeem them btw). I would say that they weren't making a judgement on the basic evil nature of man but the ability of some to be evil and others to be fooled.
The full answer to your question is that I have met many people who were good people in that they acted selflessly and had real caring for their fellow man, acted in a moral manner who were atheists. So it is hard for me to square that with someone who is "basically evil". And even they sometimes mentionned a belief in somethin. And I have known hedonistic bastards who have been transformed by the belief and prayer to a Higher Power - but not always the God of the Bible. I have friends of faith including Orthodox Jews, Southern Baptist, Catholic, Mormon, Anglican, etc. And also a couple of Buddhists and Hindus. And with all of them, their faith in whatever they believe pushes them to be better people. So I am not anti-religion by any means. I believe the teachings of Christ offer some of the best morals. My wife is Catholic and our children are being raised in that faith. That doesn't mean that I agree with all of the Church's positions but I don't bash it.
What I can't believe is that simply because someone does not practice the same faith or is not Christian is basically evil. That is why I evaded your question.
I guess what I inferred from your comment was off the mark, then, huh? :) If so, please excuse my lack of discernment.
"Then you brought forth examples of why the framers set up their government the way they did to offer proof that they thought man was basically bad. (Never saying once how you thought this would prove that they believed only God could redeem them btw). I would say that they weren't making a judgement on the basic evil nature of man but the ability of some to be evil and others to be fooled."
Number 1: You aren't a careful reader - better re-read my first post. Number 2: We're not taking about the subject of "redemption". Number 3: My personal opinions are totally immaterial. What's under examination is the underlying premise for our founding documents, not anyone's opinion about the implications of that premise, a premise which is a proven fact (look again at what underlies our copyright laws in my first post).
"The full answer to your question is that I have met many people who were good people in that they acted selflessly and had real caring for their fellow man, acted in a moral manner who were atheists. ...."
"Good" in whose eyes? Yours? Theirs? Other moral relativists who judge right and wrong based upon the situation? Lots of luck. :) "What I can't believe is that simply because someone does not practice the same faith or is not Christian is basically evil. That is why I evaded your question."
No one is asking you to BELIEVE it. I don't CARE whether or not you believe it. What you believe is God's business, not mine. Don't be so defensive.
I merely posted what I did to show that anyone who believes that people are "basically good", are at odds with what the Framers of our founding documents believed.
The belief that man is "basically good" is also at odds with common sense. If that was the case, little children wouldn't have to be taught not to lie, steal, etc.,etc., it would just ___come naturally___ to them and they wouldn't have to fight every day of their lives to "try" and love their neighbor as much as they love themselves.
Let's not kid ourselves.