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To: kidkosmic1
God does not SIN and need forgiveness for sins like a man--NO WAY! BUT, He does REGRET certain decisions He's made and decides to take A NEW COURSE OF ACTION. This is made so clear in I Samuel. If you can't accept the Word on this, what can I say?

Usually when people list the attributes of God they list immutable as one. Do you disagree with that ?

If God changes his mind, is there a chance he will change his mind about saving men that repent and believe?

278 posted on 01/04/2005 9:12:16 AM PST by RnMomof7 (because I'm good enough , and smart enough and darn it I deserve it ")
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To: RnMomof7; HarleyD; Raycpa; rwfromkansas
You guys are just dancing around this issue--it's not intellectually or even spiritually honest. rwfromkansas is running around calling people heretics as if it somehow serves the Lord to do so. Well, it serves Him as much as dunking folks under a lake in a chair did. At least rwfromkansas has downgraded me to "ignorant," but he hasn't repented, regretted, grieved, or even sighed for calling me a heretic earlier. Wonderful.

First, I was taking the Bible too literally and not filtering what I read through orthodox teachings. Then, someone found their Strong's Concordance and decided I wasn't reading what the Bible literally said. "Repent means to comfort" Wait! "Repent means to sigh." Actually, context is the key. So, let's look at Strong's to see if I have not used a verse in its proper context:

REPENT nacham {naw-kham'}

1) to be sorry, console oneself, repent, regret, comfort, be comforted
a) (Niphal)
1) to be sorry, be moved to pity, have compassion
2) to be sorry, rue, suffer grief, repent
3) to comfort oneself, be comforted
4) to comfort oneself, ease oneself
b) (Piel) to comfort, console
c) (Pual) to be comforted, be consoled
d) (Hithpael)
1) to be sorry, have compassion
2) to rue, repent of
3) to comfort oneself, be comforted
4) to ease oneself

Gen 6:6: And it repented (05162 nacham) the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved (06087 `atsab) him at his heart.

NIV
"The LORD was grieved that he had made man on the earth, and his heart was filled with pain."

NASB
"The LORD was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart."

KJV "And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart."

NKJV
"And the LORD was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart."

Darby
"And Jehovah repented that he had made Man on the earth, and it grieved him in his heart."

This one is easy, yes? God was sorry that He made man and it grieved His heart. This God said in Genesis 6. But, just a few chapters back, in chapter 1 of Genesis, God said everything He made was "very good." Not flawed, not heading for heartache, not wicked, not so-so--very good.

We know what happened: man sinned. This downfall of man was not according to God's will because He told Adam in Genesis 2:17 not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. That was God's plainly stated will. To say otherwise is a gross contradiction.

After the fall, man kept sinning. It got worse, and worse, and worse. How bad did it get? The Lord saw that the thoughts of man's heart was only evil continually. Was this God's will for man my Calvinite brothers?

No, this wickedness was not by God's design, nor did He desire such a thing. How do I know? Let's go back to Genesis 6 now...

"And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart." God was sorry that He made man and it grieved His heart. Then what?

"So the LORD said, 'I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them.'"

Why would God be sorry that He made man if they were made and were acting in accordance with God's divine will? Why did God call everything He made very good and then decide to destroy man and beast (excepting the Ark's passengers) because He was sorry that He made them?

God was sorry He made man and flooded the world because things were not going as He desired them to go. This is not good Calvinist doctrine, I know, but it is clearly the record of Scripture.

Another quick example to show this is the correct take...
I Samuel 15:11: It repenteth (05162 nacham) me that I have set up Saul [to be] king: for he is turned back from following me, and hath not performed my commandments."

Same as in Genesis 6. God set up Saul as King of Israel. He desired for Saul to follow Him and obey His commandments (that's God's desire for man) Saul didn't obey or follow, and the Lord...

I Samuel 15:35:

NIV
"And the LORD was grieved that he had made Saul king over Israel."

NASB
"And the LORD regretted that He had made Saul king over Israel."

KJV "...and the LORD repented that he had made Saul king over Israel."

ESV
"And the LORD regretted that he had made Saul king over Israel."

NKJV
"...and the LORD regretted that He had made Saul king over Israel."

Darby
"...and Jehovah repented that he had made Saul king over Israel."

Then what? God made a change. He regretted or was grieved by His choice of Saul, and picked another to be king (David).

God doesn't lie. God is trustworthy. But, in opposition to Calvinistic doctrine, God hopes for and desires things that do not come to pass. Wicked mankind was grievously disobedient (i.e. acting outside the will of God), so God sent the flood. Saul was wicked and disobedient (i.e. acting outside the very plainly spoken will of God), so God picked another man to replace him.

The Lord has the power to make things come to pass, but this sometimes requires that He alter His plans along the way....

Jeremiah 18:7-10 (emphasis mine)
The instant I speak [God expresses His will] concerning a nation and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, to pull down, and to destroy it, if that nation against whom I have spoken turns from its evil, I will relent [God will do differently than He said He would] of the disaster that I thought to bring upon it. And the instant I speak [God expresses His will] concerning a nation and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it [God's plans and designs], if it does evil in My sight so that it does not obey My voice, then I will relent concerning the good with which I said I would benefit it [God will change His plans].

I posted the above yesterday, but it was neatly ignored.

So, take your pick--am I ignorant, heretical, maybe both? Or, or...perhaps I have presented something worthy of more investigation and consideration.
284 posted on 01/04/2005 10:15:00 AM PST by kidkosmic1 (www.InterviewwithGod.com)
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