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To: kiriath_jearim

Open theism, also known as free will theism and openness, is the teaching that God does not know all things. That is, He does not know the free will choices that people will make in the future because God either chooses not to know or because the future isn't knowable.
Is this biblical? What are the ramifications of such a teaching? Is this a dangerous movement? Does it exalt God? Read and find out why open theism is in error and is potentially very dangeous.


2 posted on 01/03/2005 8:20:49 AM PST by AppyPappy (If You're Not A Part Of The Solution, There's Good Money To Be Made In Prolonging The Problem.)
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To: AppyPappy

Sounds like something Unitarians cooked up.


4 posted on 01/03/2005 8:32:21 AM PST by HamiltonJay
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To: AppyPappy

If God does know our free will choices and all the future ramifications, does allowing them to happen, mean He is tacitly giving His approval, and if He does know these results, is it truly free will?


5 posted on 01/03/2005 8:34:26 AM PST by stuartcr
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To: AppyPappy

If you define open theism correctly, and I assume you do, then it's clearly heretical by any traditional Christian (or Jewish) standards, Catholic or Protestant.

The usual view (except for Calvinists, who allow little or no room for free will) is that God knows everything, but that His foreknowledge of what an individual will do nevertheless does not FORCE him to do it. The individual still acts freely, his will enabled by God's prevenient grace.


6 posted on 01/03/2005 8:37:08 AM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: AppyPappy
"Is this biblical?"

No.

"What are the ramifications of such a teaching?"

I doubt the impact will be huge. Most anyone who spends much time studying the bible will soon find out it isn't correct. The people who would get lead astray by this would get lead astray by most anything because they are biblically illiterate.

But I wouldn't want to be the one who lead them astray come judgment day.

39 posted on 01/03/2005 10:27:31 AM PST by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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To: AppyPappy
Open theism, also known as free will theism and openness, is the teaching that God does not know all things. That is, He does not know the free will choices that people will make in the future because God either chooses not to know or because the future isn't knowable.

Appy, you are almost correct in your 2nd sentence. Open theism (as with most everyone anymore) rejects the notion that God "chooses not to know" something.

Along with some other theologians, they've realized that God would have to know what it is that's upcoming so that he can then choose not to know it. Which is illogical.

The point that God doesn't know the future because it isn't knowable is just about right on. I think the open theists would say, "God doesn't know that which isn't true." For example, God doesn't know that I am a helicopter pilot BECAUSE I am not a helicopter pilot.

Therefore, if, for example, Appy has a true free will choice to eat chocolate ice-cream or to eat vanilla ice cream, and Appy has truly not made up his mind or indicated a preference in any way, then God doesn't know what Appy will choose because it hasn't happened yet: that is it is not a fact yet. This is based on Appy's free will choice being truly free will choice.

Another thing to remember is that Appy's choice is entirely separate from God planning certain things in the future and bringing them about by His own power.

(PS: this is all according to Open Theism and not according to me. I'm simply relaying their views as I understand Greg Boyd's writings.)

75 posted on 01/03/2005 11:38:45 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It!)
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To: AppyPappy; Revelation 911; Corin Stormhands; Starwind; P-Marlowe
Open theism, also known as free will theism and openness, is the teaching that God does not know all things. That is, He does not know the free will choices that people will make in the future because God either chooses not to know or because the future isn't knowable.

Appy, you are almost correct in your 2nd sentence. Open theism (as with most everyone anymore) rejects the notion that God "chooses not to know" something.

Along with some other theologians, they've realized that God would have to know what it is that's upcoming so that he can then choose not to know it. Which is illogical.

The point that God doesn't know the future because it isn't knowable is just about right on. I think the open theists would say, "God doesn't know that which isn't true." For example, God doesn't know that I am a helicopter pilot BECAUSE I am not a helicopter pilot.

Therefore, if, for example, Appy has a true free will choice to eat chocolate ice-cream or to eat vanilla ice cream, and Appy has truly not made up his mind or indicated a preference in any way, then God doesn't know what Appy will choose because it hasn't happened yet: that is it is not a fact yet. This is based on Appy's free will choice being truly free will choice.

Another thing to remember is that Appy's choice is entirely separate from God planning certain things in the future and bringing them about by His own power.

(PS: this is all according to Open Theism and not according to me. I'm simply relaying their views as I understand Greg Boyd's writings.)

76 posted on 01/03/2005 11:39:18 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It!)
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To: AppyPappy; maestro; fortheDeclaration
"Is this biblical?"

Certainly not now, but with all of the "new translations" popping up all the time, who knows if God will even survive the next ten years?

234 posted on 01/03/2005 6:52:22 PM PST by editor-surveyor (The Lord has given us President Bush; let's now turn this nation back to him)
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To: AppyPappy

Personally I prefer pantheism: God knows everything because God is everything. I suppose that's pretty dangerous too? Oh, well. Whatever the case, I am certain God knows a heck of a lot more than me.




249 posted on 01/03/2005 11:39:10 PM PST by Avenger
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To: AppyPappy
He does not know the free will choices >>

Can someone here please define for me what you mean by "free will"?
310 posted on 01/04/2005 1:32:55 PM PST by chronic_loser (The mindless violence of 99% of Muslims give a bad name to the rest of Islam)
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