Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Religious School Fires Theologian For "Open Theism"
Christianity Today ^ | 12/22/04 | Stan Guthrie

Posted on 01/03/2005 8:18:33 AM PST by kiriath_jearim

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 181-200201-220221-240 ... 421-438 next last
To: Matchett-PI
If God knew in advance of Saul's errant ways and or "evil" then this entire thread or discussion leads to the equally devise issue of Theodicy: "If, according to the Bible, God, who is omnipotent and benevolent, has eternally decreed all that ever comes to pass, and if He sovereignly and providentially controls all things in His created universe, how is He not the author of evil? How can evil exist in the world? How do we justify the actions of God in causing evil, suffering, and pain? This is the question of "theodicy." The word, which supposedly was coined by the German philosopher Gottfried Leibniz (1646-1716), is derived from two Greek words (theos, God, and dike, justice), and has to do with the justification of the goodness and righteousness of God in the face of the evil in the world. Through devine foreknowledge is God responsible for good and evil in the world? If so then is he considered benevolent? We all struggle with why evil happens to someone, either ourselves, our family, our friends, our nation, or perhaps some particularly disturbing instance in the news, a school shooting, genocide in another country, a terrorist bombing earthquakes and tsunamis.

PS I don't know the answers to these questions but I have pondered them alot.
201 posted on 01/03/2005 4:24:13 PM PST by Razorism (unknowable questions and answers)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 183 | View Replies]

To: connectthedots
"It's not worth the effort to engage with one so deficient in grammar."

I know that vacuous fuss-budgets are easily distracted, so here, let me fix it for you (but PLEASE don't take it as an invitation to "engage" - it's not):

You're proving my previous point. Who else, other than the stupid, show up unarmed to go into battle?. Hahahahaha

Now if the syntax / grammar doesn't meet your requirements this time, too bad. If you complain again, you will be ignored.

202 posted on 01/03/2005 4:38:37 PM PST by Matchett-PI (Today's DemocRATS are either religious moral relativists, libertines or anarchists.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 198 | View Replies]

To: Razorism
How can evil exist in the world?

Your tag line says ?

How do we justify the actions of God in causing evil, suffering, and pain?

Did He?

203 posted on 01/03/2005 4:39:27 PM PST by suzyjaruki (Love God and do as you please - Augustine)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 201 | View Replies]

To: xzins; Raycpa; kidkosmic1; Dr. Eckleburg
God does not change His mind. Consider the pretty straight forward verse:

Num 23:19 "God is not a man, that He should lie, Nor a son of man, that He should repent; Has He said, and will He not do it? Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good?

There is no wiggle room for interpretation. The scriptures clearly says God does not repent. To say He does is to ascribe man-made characteristics to Him, according to the scripture.

Yes, there are other places where God says, “I repent” such as:

Jer 26:3 'Perhaps they will listen and everyone will turn from his evil way, that I may repent of the calamity which I am planning to do to them because of the evil of their deeds.'

We find out later that Micah had already prophesied their destruction in the days of Hezekiah.

Jer 26:17-18 Then some of the elders of the land rose up and spoke to all the assembly of the people, saying, “Micah of Moresheth prophesied in the days of Hezekiah king of Judah; and he spoke to all the people of Judah, saying, 'Thus the LORD of hosts has said, "Zion will be plowed as a field, And Jerusalem will become ruins, And the mountain of the house as the high places of a forest."'

God knew they wouldn’t repent so God knew He wouldn't repent. Micah told them the people that they were not going to repent way before Jeremiah set foot into town. God was not surprised.

204 posted on 01/03/2005 4:42:48 PM PST by HarleyD
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 154 | View Replies]

To: Matchett-PI
Who else, other than the stupid, show up unarmed to go into battle?

Then why are you here?

205 posted on 01/03/2005 4:43:44 PM PST by connectthedots
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 202 | View Replies]

To: kiriath_jearim

Open theism is pure blasphemy.


206 posted on 01/03/2005 4:44:03 PM PST by rwfromkansas ("War is an ugly thing, but...the decayed feeling...which thinks nothing worth war, is worse." -Mill)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Razorism
"How can evil exist in the world? How do we justify the actions of God in causing evil, suffering, and pain?"

Would you say Job underwent suffering and pain? (hint-YES)

Who caused Job's suffering and pain? (hint-Satan)

Who allowed Satan to causes Job's suffering and pain? (hint-God)

What was the reason God allow it? (I'll leave this question to you.)

207 posted on 01/03/2005 4:48:05 PM PST by HarleyD
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 201 | View Replies]

To: Raycpa

I do not reject anything the bible describes as truth, I'm sure the bible describes the truth with reference to many historical facts.

Perhaps if you could give me an example of a knowable truth, without a scripture quote, it would help me to understand.


208 posted on 01/03/2005 4:52:54 PM PST by stuartcr
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 150 | View Replies]

To: Raycpa

How is it election when God looks at WHAT YOU DECIDE?

Isn't that assenting to your choice?

Election, as Scripture details, is completely God-caused.

Why? Because it is he who "began a good work in you..."

Because we are fallen sinners, and only God's work can lead to our salvation.


209 posted on 01/03/2005 5:05:31 PM PST by rwfromkansas ("War is an ugly thing, but...the decayed feeling...which thinks nothing worth war, is worse." -Mill)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: suzyjaruki
Naturalism?

I think of Deism as self worship. Is there a difference? How do you know who your god is, unless you have created that god yourself?

No definitely not self-worship or a belief that there is no higher purpose to life. Nearly all religions have a core belief that you should love your neighbor. To treat them as you would want to be treated, etc. To help them when possible. I believe that is the most important part of living a Godly life.

Benjamin Franklin is a much better writer than I. Here is a link to something he wrote. . Letter to Stiles My beliefs are very similiar.

210 posted on 01/03/2005 5:12:40 PM PST by PFC
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 200 | View Replies]

To: Matchett-PI

Laws are being re-written all the time...otherwise, we do not progress.

Instead of saying my statement is laughable, please explain how a belief is an absolute.

If you cannot answer a direct question, then at least admit it like the other fellow, and try to refrain from making belittling remarks.


211 posted on 01/03/2005 5:15:29 PM PST by stuartcr
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 175 | View Replies]

To: HarleyD; P-Marlowe; connectthedots
Ge 6:6 - And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

Like I said, Harley, and like you confirmed with the scripture from Jeremiah, and I have demonstrated with the above scripture.....we cannot deny that the scripture says "it REPENTED the Lord."

The issue is how we interpret it.

You gave your interpretation in the last post. It's as good as any.

212 posted on 01/03/2005 5:16:31 PM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 204 | View Replies]

To: HarleyD

Especially since God already knew the outcome.


213 posted on 01/03/2005 5:20:11 PM PST by stuartcr
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 207 | View Replies]

To: HarleyD

"God is not a man, that He should lie, Nor a son of man, that He should repent; Has He said, and will He not do it? Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good?"

Samuel says nearly the same thing in I Samuel 15:29:
"And also the Strength of Israel will not lie nor repent: for he is not a man, that he should repent."

Then, just a few verses later, verse 35, is says this:

"...and the LORD repented that he had made Saul king over Israel."

God does not SIN and need forgiveness for sins like a man--NO WAY! BUT, He does REGRET certain decisions He's made and decides to take A NEW COURSE OF ACTION. This is made so clear in I Samuel. If you can't accept the Word on this, what can I say?


214 posted on 01/03/2005 5:21:22 PM PST by kidkosmic1 (www.InterviewwithGod.com)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 204 | View Replies]

To: HarleyD

"God knew they wouldn’t repent so God knew He wouldn't repent."

So, God goes around saying things He doesn't mean?

False.

There's a principle you need to take a look at:

Jeremiah 18
6 O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the LORD. Behold, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are ye in mine hand, O house of Israel.

7 At what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, and to pull down, and to destroy it;

8 If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them.

9 And at what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it;

10 If it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them.


215 posted on 01/03/2005 5:27:22 PM PST by kidkosmic1 (www.InterviewwithGod.com)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 204 | View Replies]

To: HarleyD; P-Marlowe; Revelation 911; connectthedots; Corin Stormhands

It might surprise some, but the United Brethren in Christ is America's first homegrown denomination and is also a forerunner of the United Methodist Church. The UB's were German speaking and were started by Martin Boehm (Mennonite) and William Otterbein (A Reformed.) They also have the distinction of having Milton Wright as one of their bishops....the father of Wilbur and Orville.

The UBs adopted the "methodist" discipline in their early years even though they did not unite with the methodists. They later split and one half of the split became the Evangelical United Brethren which did unite in 1969 with the Methodists to form the United Methodist Church.


216 posted on 01/03/2005 5:30:21 PM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 212 | View Replies]

To: Razorism

"PS I don't know the answers to these questions but I have pondered them alot."

If you like to "ponder" things you may like to read some of Alvin Plantinga. He deals with the heavy stuff.
http://www.leaderu.com/truth/3truth02.html

You could also do a google on Ronald H. Nash - he's good, too.


217 posted on 01/03/2005 5:39:05 PM PST by Matchett-PI (Today's DemocRATS are either religious moral relativists, libertines or anarchists.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 201 | View Replies]

To: stuartcr

You are not a clear thinker and it is impossilbe to have cogent interaction with you. I'm sorry.


218 posted on 01/03/2005 5:44:40 PM PST by Matchett-PI (Today's DemocRATS are either religious moral relativists, libertines or anarchists.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 211 | View Replies]

To: connectthedots

"Then why are you here?" - connectthedots

You might want to consider changing your screen name.

See this as it also applies to you: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1312985/posts?page=218#218


219 posted on 01/03/2005 5:48:37 PM PST by Matchett-PI (Today's DemocRATS are either religious moral relativists, libertines or anarchists.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 205 | View Replies]

To: kidkosmic1
Your arguments that God changed his mind are based on a fundamental translation problem. The word for relent merely means "sigh" or deep breath. Never in the NT is God said to have repented (read changed mind), only in the OT. Further. Numbers 23:19 and 1 Samuel 15:29 both say God is not a man that he should change his mind.

I am unconvinced that the scripture points to God changing his mind as a human does.

220 posted on 01/03/2005 6:11:13 PM PST by Raycpa (Alias, VRWC_minion,)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 195 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 181-200201-220221-240 ... 421-438 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson