Posted on 01/02/2005 7:16:29 PM PST by Blood of Tyrants
Easy at 10,000 Feet.
For $95 you can tag these things. Please read my post above.
I'm afraid your assumptions are not correct that you have been posting in this thread.
Any decent Class 3a Laser for $95 can do amazing things. I use one for Astronomy quite often, especially in the desert and on campouts as well as the backyard.
I am also an FAA Licensed Pilot, have read the studies on this, and low and behold as professional as you think pilots are, they quite often make mistakes, and unless you understand the federal codes, the FAA regulations, Notams, etc.... I suggest you stick to opinion.
The FBI also concluded these are not Terrorists but only a bunch of mischief or accidents.
And if some pilot flies through my beam at 10,000 while I'm stargazing and pointing out stars and constellations too bad. They don't own the sky.
When I've seen an aircraft's lights I have not used it. Mine is one that you have to continually press a button and should not be used for great amounts of time.
This is as stupid as some people wanting to ban Flight Simulators after 9/11.
How many accidents have there been. NONE, ZERO, NADA....
Now how many Bird Strikes have caused accidents. I've come close more than a couple of times.
All you have now are ignorant Pilots reporting every green LEGAL Ligth they see in the sky, even if it is 11 miles away as some yahoo reported.
These Ignorant Pilots and the LSM (lame Straem Media) should educate themselves on the current rules, and laws, and keep within those.
For pete's sake, they interrogated some guy until 5am for using one in his backyard and didn't break any laws because barney Fife was an ignorant idiot that had no clue.
Regards,
Joe
First off that aint a real aircraft photo in the FAA PDF, IMHO, but that of a simulator.
I have also posted other links to FAA Studies done After the one posted in post #85, like in 2003, where they tested real pilots again in simulators on effects at different powers.
Regards,
Joe
It was suggested on another thread that there's a possibility of collecting flight data going on here.
To me, hitting a moving plane with a handheld laser (at the angle it would be seen in the cockpit by the pilots) would be very, very difficult. Higher end equipment (measuring altitude, speed, etc) would have a far easier time of it than your $95 OfficeMax special.
There's likely a bit more to this, IMHO - and the tracking angle does make some sense (SAMs? There's a lot of them on the market, and they're relatively cheap), assuming that AQ remains fixated on aircraft-style terrorism.
I'm a lay person who never even heard of this stuff until recently. Your post, however, is most informative. Thanks.
Hi jstolzen,
You said:
"To me, hitting a moving plane with a handheld laser (at the angle it would be seen in the cockpit by the pilots) would be very, very difficult. Higher end equipment (measuring altitude, speed, etc) would have a far easier time of it than your $95 OfficeMax special."
You are pretty far off here, and I suspect you have zero experience with these 5mw 532 Lasers. And if you want altitude and speed, study an approach plate, learn what happens to pilots when they deviate form a published approach, and learn how easy it is to get this info without having to aim a laser at an aircraft.
It is not difficult and actually gets easier the higher up they are because they appear to be moving slower.
Do this. Contact your local High School, and ask them when their next astronomy night is.
You will find plenty of lasers to check out, and think about what is easier to see, a plane at ground level going 200mph. Picture tracking a Race Car. Now look at the next airplane you see in the daytime and watch it for 5 seconds. If it is at altitude, it may be doing 500mph, or so. Pretty easy to look at and track with your eye.
Regards,
Joe
Your welcome,
It is not that it is complicated, one just have to have all the pieces to the puzzle as it were to render a factual opinion.
But most just listen to the press, and believe the hype that they spread, and in this case they are way off base.
Glad to have helped, they are very cool instruments for astronomy.
Regards,
Joe
Sure..I'd think someone "fooling around" with their laser could conceivably make contact with the plane (someplace on the underbelly most likely) fairly easily.
Hitting it "just right" so that it reflects directly into the cockpit seems to be a whole lot harder and seems less likely to be someone on the ground just playing with low end lasers and having this happen "accidentally". (That cockpit window is pretty darn small, and the angles from the ground to the cockpit directly seem to be like hitting a very, very small "bullseye"). Now, this randomly happening > 8 times in the last week seems to have astronomically low odds. But, you're right - you're talking from direct laser experience here, and I'm not. Just intuition/what seems to make sense.
The bullet has a time-dependant trajectory- it has to be where the target is at the right time. You have to aim where the target is going to be (think skeet). The bullet does not travel a straight path, and there is no feedback- once launched the bullet just goes.
If you are out in the backyard with a bright laser, and you wave it about, you will see the beam cutting through the air, pretty cool!
It appears they now are. You can go to Goggle and do a search. One is a green-laser gun, with a distance of 10 miles, and it is only $10. The more powerful lasers than this require a permit.
A few years ago, when red lasers were cheap enough, kids would bring them to the hockey games in NJ for the players entrance. Only, during the playoffs did someone decide to try to disturb Brodeur's (the goalie) vision did the arena start banning them.
This could all just be a new fad, a new prank. However, who wants to take a chance that this is something else? If the local authorities can track and grab the people, they should. There are FAA regulations regarding kites, there must be something regarding lasers. These cases should be investigated. If they are pranksters, they are probably going to have to made out as an example.
BINGO. Most likely scenario: Practicing illuminating and tracking a missile target long enough and accurately enough not to miss. And they wouldn't care that they are showing their hand in advance because we have no way of determining place and time.
All I know is this ain't children playin', although I would love and hope to believe it is.
I'm Commercial and I know several ATP [since we all work for same airline] and all concur this is no game..even the government has put out a terror warning about this.
Game or real, the whole Bush open border doctrine is Bravo Sierra; FUBAR in other words.
Apparently more to this is right....
It seems that "laser guy in NJ"...name is Banach...remember the guy who was investigated and was found originally to have been "just playing?"
He's been arrested as of this evening...something about lying to the FBI.
I'll take a wait and see approach to these news items...
You said:
"He's been arrested as of this evening...something about lying to the FBI."
Got a link for this, please?
And what did he lie about?
At that point of the approach, the nose probably would be pointed down if the aircraft was descending. But I think people need to remember that little sticker on the back of truck trailers that says "If you can't see my mirrors, I can't see you". Aircraft cockpits are designed to allow the pilots good visibility. You can look almost straight down from the side windows of many modern aircraft cockpits. And if you can see the ground from the cockpit, someone on the ground can see (or shine laser at) you.
No link...Channel 4 11:00 news...
As for what he was lying about...report didn't say. Just said the charges were for lying to FBI...
Channel 4 where Please?
http://www.dailyrecord.com/news/articles/news2-lasers.htm
The above has more specific info...
Note...this story was published BEFORE today's Chicago incident and before the subsequent arrest of Banach...father of three, has retained counsel....
Channel 4 - New York
I linked to that same story in post #208.
I am very aware of this story already. I am interested in what he was arrested for? IE: What did he lie about?
Again...the report said he lied to FBI....didn't give specifics.
As you are already following story, if you gain additional info, kindly post here...
Will do thanks.
I also just checked WNBC's website and found nothing as of yet. I'll check again in the morning.
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