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To: Colonel Kangaroo
The Union had numerical advantages, but that was negated by the need to subdue a huge land with significant armies of its own.

100% Correct.

The Confederacy only had to avoid losing and keep up the fight. They gave up the fight. If the lost cause had been so noble to begin with, it would have never become a lost cause.

I agree

When large confederate areas were regained by the Union, many confederate soldiers lost their heart for the fight. They were fighting for their homes, not for the plantation owners' beloved peculiar institution and not for any cause that needs revival today.

I agree with stipulation. Many, maybe most, did not fight for slavery per se, but the agitators who started the war, the "Apostles of Disunion" as Gallagher calls them in his book titled the same, the politicians, rich, plantation owners, and related diplomats and elected officials DID start the war because of slavery and even the average soldier WAS worried about how emancipation would effect his lifestyle.

In other words, I will concede that your average Johnny-Reb cared little about slavery per se, and fought for home and heart, but that he had a vested interest in seeing the social order stay the same AND, more importantly, the CAUSE from the level where it mattered, ie; the political level which advocated and forced session, WAS slavery.

142 posted on 12/30/2004 12:35:31 PM PST by NJ Neocon (Democracy is tyranny of the masses. It is three wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner)
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To: NJ Neocon
I agree with stipulation. Many, maybe most, did not fight for slavery per se, but the agitators who started the war, the "Apostles of Disunion" as Gallagher calls them in his book titled the same, the politicians, rich, plantation owners, and related diplomats and elected officials DID start the war because of slavery and even the average soldier WAS worried about how emancipation would effect his lifestyle. In other words, I will concede that your average Johnny-Reb cared little about slavery per se, and fought for home and heart, but that he had a vested interest in seeing the social order stay the same AND, more importantly, the CAUSE from the level where it mattered, ie; the political level which advocated and forced session, WAS slavery.

I think that was more true in the lowland south where slavery was a pervasive part of the culture and the oligarchs could stir up fears. I'm not sure if that was a strong factor in the many highland areas of the south. There was a lot of people in those areas which had little contact with slavery that had other reasons to fight. Some fought due to state loyalty, some fought to keep an army from afar away from their home territory and many fought from being compelled by the heavy hand of the confederate government.

172 posted on 12/30/2004 3:38:50 PM PST by Colonel Kangaroo
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To: NJ Neocon

"the CAUSE from the level where it mattered, ie; the political level which advocated and forced session, WAS slavery."

My friend,the United States government, circa 1861, disagrees with you. You see, there is a relatively easy way to determine why wars are fought. It is called a Declaration of War.

On July 22, 1861, the US Congress issued a "Joint Resolution on the War" that echoed Lincoln’s reasons for the invasion of the Southern states:
“Resolved: . . . That this war is not being prosecuted upon our part in any spirit of oppression, nor for any purpose of conquest or subjugation, nor purpose of overthrowing or interfering with the rights or established institutions of those states, but to defend and maintain the supremacy of the Constitution and all laws made in pursuance thereof and to preserve the Union, with all the dignity, equality and rights of the several states unimpaired; and that as soon as these objects are accomplished the war ought
to cease.”

By "the established institutions of those states" the Congress was referring to slavery. As with Lincoln, destroying the secession movement took precedence over doing anything about slavery. SPECIFICALLY, THEY SAID THE WAR HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH SLAVERY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is not surprising. Only 4 months earlier, to lure the Southern states back into the Union, the northern Congress overwhelmingly passed the original 13th Amendment, that would have guarranteed slavery FOREVER--and Lincoln AGREED!!!!!!!!!!!
On March 2, 1861, the U.S. Senate passed a proposed Thirteenth Amendment to the US Constitution (which passed the House of Representatives on February 28) that would have prohibited the federal government from ever interfering with slavery in the Southern states. (See U.S. House of Representatives, 106th Congress, 2nd Session, The Constitution of the United States of America: Unratified Amendments, Document No. 106-214, presented by Congressman Henry Hyde (Washington, D.C. U.S. Government Printing Office, January 31, 2000). The proposed amendment read as follows:

ARTICLE THIRTEEN
“No amendment shall be made to the Constitution which will authorize or give to Congress the power to abolish or interfere, within any State, with the domestic institutions thereof, including that of persons held to labor or service by the laws of said State.”

Two days later, in his First Inaugural Address, Abraham Lincoln promised to support the amendment even though he believed that the Constitution already prohibited the federal government from interfering with Southern slavery. As he stated:
“I understand a proposed amendment to the Constitution . . . has passed Congress, to the effect that the Federal Government shall never interfere with the domestic institutions of the States, including that of persons held to service. To avoid misconstruction of what I have said, I depart from my purpose, not to speak of particular amendments, so far as to say that, holding such a provision to now be implied constitutional law, I have no objection to its being made express and irrevocable.”

Now, if the Southern states had TRULY seceded to protect slavery, here was their chance! Simply send their representatives back to Congress, approve this amendment, and slavery would have been safe forever!

BUT THEY DID NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!






201 posted on 01/04/2005 8:56:05 AM PST by Jsalley82
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