Bush makes a push for his stalled overhaul (O COME ALL YOU ILLEGALS)

Houston Chronicle ^ | Dec. 21, 2004 | Michael Hedges

[Dubya]

WASHINGTON - President Bush called the U.S. immigration system a failure Monday and promised to press Congress to adopt his languishing overhaul, which has drawn strong opposition from key Republican lawmakers and others.

"We want our Border Patrol agents chasing crooks and thieves and drug runners and terrorists, not good-hearted people who are coming here to work," he said at a news conference.

In January, Bush urged Congress to adopt a list of proposals, including a guest worker plan for the 8 million to 10 million illegal immigrants in the United States. The plan would allow illegal immigrants with jobs in the United States to keep them under a new temporary visa for three years.

An extension for another three years would be available.

"The system we have today is not a compassionate system. It is not working. And as a result, the country is less secure than it could be with a rational system," Bush said.

"I'm passionate about this because the nature of this country is one that is good-hearted and our people are compassionate."

Bush discussed the issue last month with Mexican President Vicente Fox in Chile.

Fox has been pushing for a meeting in Washington to discuss immigration policies affecting the people who flow from Mexico to the United States.

Republicans opposed to liberalizing immigration laws call Bush's plan a thinly veiled amnesty program.

With a heated presidential race dominating the year, the Bush immigration proposals languished in Congress.

Now Bush is committed to another try.

A Bush ally on immigration overhaul, Sen. John Cornyn, R-Texas, said he couldn't point to any specific change that would make passage of an immigration bill more likely in the coming year.

But he said, "There seems to be a growing sense of urgency for dealing with the issue."

Bush urged Congress to guarantee temporary workers the same rights as U.S. workers, including a minimum wage and legal recourse if their employee rights were violated.

And he asked for the expansion of the legal permanent resident program, now capped at 140,000 people a year.

[alkaloid2]

Your argument is bull and so is Bush and most here know it.

Now THAT'S an argument! Is there a logical fallacy for supposed strength in numbers?

Why waste a post to say something that annoying and pointless?

tSG

[alkaloid2]

That hasn't been the policy at all. The policy has been to grant an amnesty every so often and do nothing in the meantime while the problem gets worse. In fact, the amnesties always make the problem worse.

That's funny, according to this, it seems that the policy IS deportation.

How do you feel about rewarding illegal aliens at the expense of legit guest workers and immigration applicants who've never broken our laws? Is that in the spirit of immigration?

Rewarding whom? I don't consider my job a "reward". Can you prove that giving jobs to illegals comes at the expense of legit guest workers? Seems to me that most guest workers work in high level technological industries. Additionally, here we go again with the "illegal immigrant crime rate". No one has yet provided me a statistic showing illegal immigrant crime vs. naturalized citizen crime.

I get it -- you're a bigot.

There are plenty of hardworking Americans in this country, and their are plenty of law-abiding hardworking Mexicans who haven't broken our laws who'd like an opportunity. Why would you want to reward illegal aliens at their expense?

WHAT? Hello, the illegal aliens ARE the Mexicans? What in the hell are you talking about? If anything, I'm bigoted against lazy Americans who don't want to do the hard work, yes. Illegal aliens are more than glad to snap it up. How can legalizing illegal aliens be right when it's always failed in the past and is the source of our current problems?

How can shipping all the illegal aliens back be right when it's always failed in the pas and has not alleviated our current problems? Yet again I reiterate - you guys all want to gripe and whine but offer no solutions.

tSG

[alkaloid2]

Why don't those who want the Mexicanization of the USA just move themselves to Mexico --- what's stopping that? If you think all of Mexico is so wonderful that you want no limitations whatsoever --- and all our cites should look just like Ciudad Juarez --- then just move over there --- you should love it there.

Why do people who have no grasp of the conversation and have read only one post without knowing the history behind the argument even bother wasting bandwidth by posting this nonsense?

tSG

[alkaloid2]

Hey, buddy or whatever you are, PLENTY of American citizens HAD concrete companies until the SCUMBAG element in the industry began BREAKING THE LAW and hiring ILLEGALS and FIRING all their AMERICAN WORKERS. One by one, the HONEST LAW-ABIDING contractors have been driven out of business and bankrupted by the LAW BREAKERS!

Mister, my AMERICAN CITIZEN brothers OWN a concrete company in Tulsa - and have done so for more than 20 YEARS! They're on the ropes right now because of being underbid by SLIMEBALL contractors who hire ILLEGALS instead of AMERICANS to pour concrete. Maybe your bullsh*t goes over with some of these people on here who've never worked with their hands for a living in the trades but those of us who actually WORK in the industry know what's going on - you obviously don't.

Most all the male members of my extended family (and I'm talking a BIG family) are employed in the construction trades so don't bother using the President's favorite BS line about "the jobs Americans won't do" with me. I KNOW different. Like you, the President doesn't know what he's talking about when it comes to this issue.

This sounds to me like the big, bad Wal-Mart coming to town and "forcing" the mom and pop shops out of business. Mom and Pop have to adjust; if they don't, they're done. In addition, Mom and Pop's customers have to decide that they want to keep Mom and Pop in business. Mom and Pop can capitalize on "buy American", or "we don't hire illegals", etc.

The market does what the market bears, like it or not. There's a reason all of our stuff is made by little kids in China - we as Americans want to pay the cheapest price. Sorry, but your family had better adjust to what the market can bear. That, or they will be put out of business.

I find it dubious that a company hiring illegals at 5 bucks an hour can so drastically underbid another company hiring legal day laborers at 6 bucks an hour. Sounds like a bunch of whiny excuses for poor business practices to me.

tSG

[alkaloid2]

If Mexicans are starving, then they should turn to their own government for help. Mexico is not a poor country. It can afford to help its own people.

Isolationism at its best.

tSG

[txdoda]

How can shipping all the illegal aliens back be right when it's always failed in the pas and has not alleviated our current problems?

Can you provide a link to this statement ??

[alkaloid2]

The typical uninformed statement of a "no borders for my country crowd". We don't need alternatives. There are hundreds of laws regarding this issue. We need enforcement not new laws.

Agreed. And they are working in a stellar fashion. Thanks for the ad hominem bit about my being uninformed and part of the "no borders" crowd. Really makes the argument stick. Let me reiterate ONCE AGAIN. The current laws ARE NOT working. The enforcement IS NOT working.

We can talk about "enforcement" until we're blue in the fact but that doesn't change the fact that it ISN'T WORKING, and that there are extraneous elements here that make the issue more complex than just "shippin' 'em back".

By the way, the majority of Americans want the borders enforced and illegals removed. Bush was elected as a public servant. He's supposed to do as the majority wishes. Unless of course, you believe you are supposed to serve him?

Statistics please? Or is this one of those "Democrat majorities" that doesn't really exist? His job is also to protect the country. If he believes that granting worker's permits to illegals in order to document them instead of letting anonymous people run willy-nilly around the U.S. is going to reduce the chances that we are attacked again, then I'm all for it.

You're not going to get anyone documented if you tell them, "hey, come into this office, register, and then we'll put you on the next flight back", now are you?

tSG

[alkaloid2]

Can you provide a link to this statement ??

Um...millions are still here?

tSG

[EagleMamaMT]

"I find it dubious that a company hiring illegals at 5 bucks an hour can so drastically underbid another company hiring legal day laborers at 6 bucks an hour."

Yeah, well, Smart Guy, you were the one who knew so little about the concrete industry that you thought no Americans had ever had concrete businesses in this country. Kind of shows how much you know about the concrete business, doesn't it?

I think I'll listen to the guys who are actually IN the business, as opposed to you, an armchair quarterback. When you've owned a concrete business for 20+ years, you can tell me how much you know and how competing against ILLEGAL ALIEN cheap-o labor isn't a factor in business losses for law-abiding American-owned concrete businesses. Until then, don't bother spouting off about something you obviously know NOTHING about!

[txdoda]

How can shipping all the illegal aliens back be right when it's always failed in the pas

I would like to know WHEN we have shipped out ALL the illegals in the past.

[WhatHappenedtoAmerica]

Forget Sanford - you've got my vote!

[TigerTale]

Then you're for open borders, which is an extreme position.

Open borders means no controls at all. I favor of a regulated guest-worker program.

"Regulated" could mean a number of things--including requiring a worker to be competent in English, pass a background check, and demonstrate that he will be able to support himself on the wages he will be earning.

I don't support quotas in such a program--central control doesn't work for labor any better than it works for other elements of the economy. Businesses know how many workers they need, and should be able to hire many as they want, so long as those workers meet the criteria of the guest-worker program.

The rules of the program should be clear-cut, and rigorously enforced. To prevent disruption to the economy, there should be a transition period where qualified but currently illegal workers can apply for guest-worker status. Aliens who are in the United States illegally after the transition period expires should be taken into custody and deported.

[RockinRight]

Hehe...well in 2008, I will only be 31.

[alkaloid2]

Yeah, well, Smart Guy, you were the one who knew so little about the concrete industry that you thought no Americans had ever had concrete businesses in this country. Kind of shows how much you know about the concrete business, doesn't it?

Huh? Where did I say that? Even if I was that ignorant on the subject, I could at least surmise that since buildings have been built here for the last few hundred years, and during the majority of that time the majority of the populace was of European decent, that it is fairly probable that the concrete industry might have had a couple of white folks working in it.

I think I'll listen to the guys who are actually IN the business, as opposed to you, an armchair quarterback.

Good, because in contrast to me, they aren't biased at all about it. :/

When you've owned a concrete business for 20+ years, you can tell me how much you know and how competing against ILLEGAL ALIEN cheap-o labor isn't a factor in business losses for law-abiding American-owned concrete businesses. Until then, don't bother spouting off about something you obviously know NOTHING about!

You've owned a concrete business for over 20 years? Funny, I thought that was owned by your brothers or something. In any case, I digress.

Since you are obviously an expert on the subject, could you please give me a breakdown of labor dollars spent on your concrete business, and the percentage of overall sales that represents?

In addition, could you give me a market survey showing that no more competition has arisen which would directly impact your sales and show whether the demand for concrete has remained stable over the last 20 years?

It would also be interesting to note whether any major building projects have been implemented, how much you bid on said projects, and by how much you were underbid by these illegal-hiring businesses.

When you provide me with all the extraneous stimuli that could impact a concrete business, then we can talk about whether your claim that these businesses hiring illegal alien cheap-o labor are actually doing so, or if they have just changed their business practices to be more competitive. I'm not saying that this doesn't happen mind you, I'm just saying that the extent that it impacts other businesses seems doubtful at best.

tSG

[alkaloid2]

I would like to know WHEN we have shipped out ALL the illegals in the past.

Never, which is my point exactly. We will never be able to ship 'em all back, so we need to come up with alternative solutions.

tSG

[WhatHappenedtoAmerica]

I wrote them. Here's what I sent:

All of my family have been lifelong Republicans. We've donated, campaigned and voted for Republicans in every election for a couple of decades.

However, I assure you that if the Republicans continue on this path of facilitating illegal immigration instead of enforcing our laws, the Republicans will lose all of our votes and any we can bring with us.

My younger brother who stood in the rain for George W. Bush's first inauguration, waited six hours to view Reagan in the rotunda, and has never voted for a Democrat in his life told me the other day that he will vote for Hillary in 2008 if she is the only candidate that promises to stop the invasion of our country. Multiply his sentiments by millions. The impact will be obvious, being in 2006.

Please advice the President to reform immigration only in a manner that prevents a further invasion from the south. I promise that anything else will be political suicide for the GOP.

[johnmilken]

The GOP has often been a broad church - libertarians to evangelicals, elite to blue collar - but this issue could creep up and split the party along class lines. What Americans benefit from this other than bosses who want pay under minimum wage?

[WhatHappenedtoAmerica]

Last week's Gallop Poll show only 1% of the respondents listed illegal immigration as their #1 concern. So you are part of a very tiny minority that is definitely not conservative.

Another reason I believe this statement is false is that during the third Presidential debate the moderator said that he had more email about immigration that on any other topic.

[WhatHappenedtoAmerica]

Okay, well you can straighten up the mess the next go around - 2012.

I hate to say it, but it's bound to be worse then. I intend to make every effort to see that it is not.

[txdoda]

Never, which is my point exactly. We will never be able to ship 'em all back, so we need to come up with alternative solutions.

Sorry your following statement seems to imply that all have been deported in the past & it doesn't work

("How can shipping all the illegal aliens back be right when it's always failed in the pas and has not alleviated our current problems?")

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Next Question.....

How can another *reward* for illegals end our illegal problem ??

We've had several *rewards* since 1986 (for millions) & none of those have solved our illegal problem ??