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To: Rokke
Is the Pope considered infallible

Only as definitively stated by The Vatican Council - and I don't mean Vat II. He must speak to the whole world, on matters of dogma, concerning faith and morals, saying that this is imminent in Revelation and irreformable. Some suggest a lesser but still serious standard applies to the pronouncements on a possible female priesthood. But that isn't technically an exercise of the Solemn Magisterium.

The irony is that in the defense of this Pope's foolishness in many things, generally stemming from ecumenism, his defenders tend to say that everything he does is infallible, but that rarely were any Popes prior to Paul VI infallible in the same way. Those who criticize His Holiness do so on the basis of all those other Popes, Tradition, and that once the Truth is served, those interested in Truth wish it applied and spread to the whole world, not 'reformed' and remade.

9 posted on 12/20/2004 6:34:33 PM PST by sevry
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To: sevry
Is the Pope considered infallible

Only as definitively stated by The Vatican Council - and I don't mean Vat II.


It seems to be a little more complicated than that. When the Pope speaks on matters of faith and morals, he is exercising the extraordinary magisterium.

Whether declarations of faith and morals are the only instances of the exercise of the extraordinary magisterium is a different question.

If someone argues that canonization is not infallible, there are other questions raised. For example, how could Catholics pray for intercession of someone who is not in heaven?
13 posted on 12/20/2004 6:45:39 PM PST by Mike Fieschko
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To: sevry
I agree. I don't feel that canonization (which since medieval times come at the recommendation of an authoritative investigation) is considered an "ex cathedra" pronouncement.

While the Vatican Council defined Papal Infallibility, it was merely a clarification of the authority bestowed by Christ. However, I don't believe that canonization in a papal prounouncement of dogma concerning matters of faith and morals. Canonization, in the early Church, was an honor bestowed on Christ's chosen Apostles and the fathers of the Church. Later it became a more formalized process. This process required proof that beatified ("saintly") persons be shown to have performed miracles through intercession or that after their deaths that prayers for their intercession resulted in miracles for which there is no scientific explanation. However, these determinations of miracles are made by men, there is no claim that these determinations (and subsequent canonizations) are themselves Divine.

17 posted on 12/20/2004 6:55:03 PM PST by wagglebee (Memo to sKerry: the only thing Bush F'ed up was your career)
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