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To: gbcdoj; pascendi
The Spirit safeguards the Magisterium precisely so it will adhere to the Faith!

Wrong.

Did the Holy Spirit safeguard Mahony when he wrote an heretical document claiming the Eucharist is present in the assembly? Even Mother Angelica had a problem with it. How about when he ruled there was no liturgical abuse going on in his diocese despite PICTURES to the contrary?

Was the Holy Spirit present when Mahony built his pagan temple complete with an inverted pentagram roof, a snake winding through the children's garden and sheep dogs about to attack the sheep?

Is the Holy Spirit present every time Kasper opens his mouth to utter yet another heretical statement?

Was the Holy Spirit present when the Pope kissed the Koran, a book which commands our slaughter as infidels?

Was the Holy Spirit present when the Magisterium claimed the Jews no longer need convert to be saved?

Do you call all of the above adherence to the Catholic Faith?

pascendi is right. You make a great case for sedevacantism.

89 posted on 12/21/2004 12:11:58 AM PST by Canticle_of_Deborah
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To: Canticle_of_Deborah
You have presented and then knocked down a bunch of strawmen.

The Magisterium, the sacred teaching office of the Church, was not exercised in any incident that you mention. In fact, it is exercised when a judgment is given to the whole Church by the Pontiff, a Council confirmed by the Pontiff, or the ordinary universal magisterium, in which case it is binding upon all and cannot be debated (see Pius XII, Humani generis 18-21, Bl. Pius IX, Tuas Libenter).

Was the Holy Spirit present when the Magisterium claimed the Jews no longer need convert to be saved?

Since it has never claimed this, no. He was, however, present when the Magisterium condemned this thesis of no Jewish conversion: "it would be contrary to the faith to consider the Church as one way of salvation alongside those constituted by the other religions, seen as complementary to the Church or substantially equivalent to her ... followers of other religions ... are in a gravely deficient situation in comparison with those who, in the Church, have the fullness of the means of salvation." (Dominus Iesus 21-22).

91 posted on 12/21/2004 12:29:51 AM PST by gbcdoj (Sancti Athanasius, Julius, Hilarius, orate pro nobis ut teneamus catholicam fidem semper)
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To: Canticle_of_Deborah
Never mind Mahony or Kasper. They may very well be heretics. Many bishops have been heretics; they frequently are the people who come up with heresy. And if they don't come up with it, they're big promoters. Arianism, anyone?

As for the Magisterium declaring that Jews no longer need to convert to be saved, the Magisterium has done no such thing. If you want to hear the current instructions on the topic, Jean-Marie Cardinal Lustiger is an expert.

As for Holy Father kissing the Koran...
He is very very eager to be ecumenical. So much so, that he often forgets his own children. It is the same thing with Assisi. It was no doubt very impressive for Non-Catholics, and non-Christians, etc. But Holy Father did not think about the damage it would do to the simple faith of so many Catholics who can't stomach the parsing of "praying together" into "being to together to pray".

It is the same thing with this Saint business. I have my doubts about the report, because at any one time there are so many things being 'considered' by the Pope. Nevertheless, it is a terribly bad idea to cheapen canonization by stripping the process of the supernatural.

This is just like the alter girls decision, and Communion in the hand, etc. Bad management. But poor management is hardly an excuse for sedevacantism.
114 posted on 12/21/2004 5:57:53 AM PST by Lilllabettt
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