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To: blanknoone

How can Homo heidelbergensis be considered archaic Homo sapiens when it predated Neanderthal man?

What about Homo antecessor?

Homo erectus made stone tools also, didn't it? Perhaps this is a Homo erectus' product.

50,000 years ago would be clearly H. sapiens.


71 posted on 12/17/2004 1:27:33 PM PST by ZULU (Fear the government which fears your guns. God, guts, and guns made America great.)
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To: ZULU
How can Homo heidelbergensis be considered archaic Homo sapiens when it predated Neanderthal man?

Although predated, there is also evidence of coexistance/overlap. That goes to the dispute about where to draw the line between species. In the narrow form, we (modern humans) and only we are homo sapiens.

In the broad form, there is homo sapiens (no identifier, or archaic) or homo sapiens Heidelbergensis then homo sapiens neaderthalensis and then homo sapiens sapiens (modern humans).

So it comes down to whether we consider Heidelbergensis and Neanderthal parts of homo sapiens or outside of homo sapiens. To the best of my knowledge the debate still "rages" although I don't think it is quite relevant.

Personally, given the species definition by interbreeding, I think it is up in the air, and we will likely never know if a modern person could have viable offspring with a Neanderthal or Heidelbergensis.

What about Homo antecessor?

I don't personally know much about that one...my understanding is that that one is very speculative, and relies primarily on a single juvenile that could easily be miscategorized. Given that identification is primarily by skull bone structure, it is entirely possible that a juvenile structure would not be immediately identifiable as being part of whatever it was. Regardless, given the relative lack of evidence, I don't think that one is particularly important.

Homo erectus made stone tools also, didn't it? Perhaps this is a Homo erectus' product.

Yes, and possibly. When I first made reference to an earilier hominid that is what I had in mind. In fact, Habilis, predecessor to erectus also used primitive tools. Not sure exactly how primitive. If this axe was of a softer material, I would think it would be within Habilis' capabilities, but given that it is from such a hard stone, I wouldn't hazard a guess.

Erectus definitely made it to Europe. I am not sure about Habilis.

75 posted on 12/17/2004 1:54:05 PM PST by blanknoone (The two big battles left in the War on Terror are against our State dept and our media.)
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To: ZULU

Oh, and 50,000 years ago could definitlely have been Neanderthal, although that may or may not be considered inside H. Sapiens.


76 posted on 12/17/2004 1:56:19 PM PST by blanknoone (The two big battles left in the War on Terror are against our State dept and our media.)
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