GRAND PRIZE WINNER: SIG SAUER P229

Military.com ^

[xp38]

A capability of extremely efficient body disposal leaving no messy evidence around. That is a major plus to look forward to. Complete annihilation is pretty good stopping power in my book. :)

[Constantine XIII]

LOL, true.

[Constantine XIII]

But do you realise how hard it is to cover up the SMELL? :)

[freedumb2003]

So how many "is that a MK17 thermonuclear weapon in your pants or are you just happy to see me" jokes have had cracked at you?

I would imagine only one.

[ßuddaßudd]

I have shot the Sig 226 and USP40 side by side and liked both equally. Ended up buying the USP40 because I got a better deal from my dealer than the Sig.

[xp38]

I think that only applies to Klingons but we need more field testing to be sure.

[Centurion2000]

looks like a Makarov actually.

[archy]

Actually I just got back my C&S de-versioned Browning High Power a week ago Archy and it is rockin ! They converted my 40 Short & Whimpy BHP for me back to 9MM so's I can feed it a steady diet of +P without trashing my regular P-35 frame they did for me a decade er so ago. ......:o)

Stay safe !

You tried the shorty *detective* length slides made by the Argentines on your frame yet? I'm working a fairly convuluted 3-way trade that may end up with my acquiring one of the things, but they're available either seperately for around $200, or as a complete shorty-GP handgun. And they're just the right size for Santa to leave one in a Christmas stocking....

FYI, I've logged just over 100,000 rounds through my old 68CXXXX Browning, which I semi-retired back in the late '70s. But it's still a capable and proven tool, and it fits my hand now as well as it did back in 1969. And with one of the shorty slide/barrel outfits fitted, would carry very nicely in most of the rigs I've got for Colt Commanders and M39 S&Ws. And with a set of Crimson Trace BHP laser grips aboard...hmmmmm....

[archy]

My Beretta 92F has more than 5000 rounds thru it. I suspect it is pushing 10,000 rounds, since I have had it since 1988, and many of those, probably half, are +p. I always check for frame and block cracks before firing it, and so far, no probs. What sort of ammo would one have to be using to wear out a Beretta in 5000 rounds? (+P+ w/suppressor??)

The Navy had most of their problems using 147 grain JHP ammunition, meant for use in suppressed MP5SD SMGs, but which the Naval SpecOps [mostly SEALs, but including a few others] community also wanted to be able to run in their handguns if the need arose. The Army was concerned to run some *shoot to destruction* tests on M9 pistols around the same time [circa 1987/'88] and found that those tested with ball ammo all survived 10,000 rounds without failure, with the slide of one of the three so tested failing at around 23,000 rounds, with the other two fracturing or shattering at 30,000-plus. I can likely dig up more of the details if you're interested; I was working for the Navy in the small arms buisness in the earely '80s while the JSSAP M9/M92 selection was ongoing. BTW, then-SecDef Casper Weinberger was at one of the firing demonstrations when one of the M92s let go, injuring the shooter.

A couple of possible fixes for the M9 came about as a result of the problems, including the nifty Phrobis slide unit for the Beretta M92, but the availability of suppressed 5,56mm weapons and a suppressed barrel assembly for the Navy's Mk.46 model 0 5.56mm SAWs lessens the problem considerably. At least until more of the newer Navy Mk.48 Mod. 0 7.62mm LWMG/ SAWs replace the beat up Mk.43 mod.0/M60E4 MGs now running out their service lives in the sandbox.

[archy]

With so many compact 9mm pistols now available, I just don't see much use for the .380 anymore.

For sound-suppressed weapons, and for those nighttime encounters when muzzle flash can be a problem. Some civilian ammunition includes flash-suppressing chemicals added to the powder; some does not. Try the loads upon which you rely, in the gun you plan to carry and use, at night [or indoors] to find out for yourself.

[BCR #226]

ping

[spodefly]

Thanks for the info, Archy. I should have known it would be the SEALS breaking the M9's. ;) I am hoping to have many more years out of my 92F, especially since it took me a full year to get used to shooting if after retiring the .45. I don't believe the CorBon +p 115gr JHP's are putting any excessive stress on it.

That Mk46 is a cutie. They let civies have those?

[Travis McGee]

A pal of mine was involved in the military's 9mm selection during that time frame, as an instructor teaching recruits and others how to fire the various candidate pistols, in order to evaluate their ergonomics, ease etc.

According to him, the SIG won the contest going away on its merits, but the Berreta was ultimately picked due to Italian/American basing and F-16 purchase considerations.

[yarddog]

I wouldn't worry about the durability of the Beretta. It is interesting tho, that the slide is the thinnest right where the locking lugs fit.

I have two Egyptian Helwans which are based on the old Model 951 Brigadier but have the same basic slide/locking design as the model 92.

I happened to notice one day that the color of the slide differed slightly about an inch or so around the locking lug cuts. After looking at it awhile it was obvious that it had been hardened at that point.

BTW, those Helwans although with a poorer finish shoot every bit as good and are as reliable as any.

[yarddog]

I too would be curious to know how the "detective" slide and barrel work on the Hi-power.

The Argentine Brownings are one of my favorites.

[Travis McGee]

I can remember back in the day how equipment vendors would literally drop off their prototypes at ST2. Guns, inflatables, radios etc. They expressly wanted us to beat the crap out of them, misuse them, drag them over rocks, through sand, underwater etc. An inflatable boat vendor told me SEALs would put ten years of stress on gear in 6 months, and they would be able to roll out the finished 99% mods debugged. They just wanted to hear and see what busted.

[yarddog]

I could never have made it though Seal/Rangers/Delta etc. training but it would almost have been worth it to play with all those toys.

Of course I know they were playing for keeps.

[Travis McGee]

They're sure playing for keeps today. They don't need to destruction test gear back in the USA anymore, they can do it for real in the big sandbox.

[stevio]

Named my work computer after this baby, SIG40.

[Mulder]

Some civilian ammunition includes flash-suppressing chemicals added to the powder; some does not. Try the loads upon which you rely, in the gun you plan to carry and use, at night [or indoors] to find out for yourself.

That is a good idea worth repeating.

I tried the above test once using some Lake City XM193, and the muzzle flash was huge! I need to try it again since the stupid AWB ban is gone, and I now have a Vortex FS on my rifle.