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To: Eastbound

I think the same analogy would describe how different people (beliefs) view the concept of God. Some view God as having only a single aspect. Others, who have moved from their position, view God as a Triunity -- each representing the whole.
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historically the arian position, while dominant is arabia--is an anomaly in the west.
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I'm not certain of your meaning, ckilmer. Can you re-phrase? Thank you.
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I'm responding to the "who have moved from their position" part of your statement.

I'm not sure what that's about. So I just stated that historically trinitarianism has been the dominant theology in the west. It has only been since the enlightenment that monism has been more prevalent--as practiced by unitarians (-1750)& jehovah witnesses +-1900)officially and liberal protestants (+-1935) unoffically in the USA and most protestant churches in Europe since the mid 1800's. The caveat for European churches is that they have very rapidly gone from monism to extinction. In Berlin alone some 70 churches are up for sale this year because no one attends. Monism is what happens when Jesus is considered to be no longer equal to God the Father. That is he is considered a great teacher/philosopher/prophet and very very good. The Moslems think of Jesus as being a wise man/teacher/prophet/very very very good--but not God. They take the assertion that Jesus is God in the same way that the Jews of Jesus time took Jesus words--as blasphemy.

There is no proof. Rather I have heard it said that the form of christianity that Mohammed encountered was arianism. Arianism, Named after Arias of Alexandria Egypt-- was the third century heresy against which the council of Nicea ruled in +-325. I have learned in recent years that-- during the civil wars of the roman empire of the period--the Arians and the neoplatonists were fellow travelers. Similiarly, you'll find that starting from the late 1700's the neoplatonists in the philosophy depts in the west and the purveyors of "higher criticism" in the seminaries were also fellow travelors.

Interestingly, I heard a presentation last sunday by the second of a team of free church affiliated--Calvinist German Seminarians who want to set up calvinist church in downtown Berlin. It would be the first in more than 200 years. He has been training at Redeemer Presbyterian Church in NYC. Redeemer is the first Calvinist (conservative/trinitarian) Presbyterian Church to be set up in any downtown area in the USA in many decades. Many liberal presbyterian downtown churches in NYC are virtually abandoned but they are not as far along as the liberal churches in Berlin. The German church planter I talked with was Christian Nowatzky. His historical take was much similiar to the one I presented above.

here's the url for that group.
http://www.redeemer2.com/themovement/issues/2004/august/berlinprojekt.html

My impression is the guys have the right stuff. Its my prayer that it can be said of the Germans in the next decade or so "who have moved from their position" ...


225 posted on 12/09/2004 2:30:11 PM PST by ckilmer
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To: ckilmer
"Monism is what happens when Jesus is considered to be no longer equal to God the Father. That is he is considered a great teacher/philosopher/prophet and very very good. The Moslems think of Jesus as being a wise man/teacher/prophet/very very very good--but not God. They take the assertion that Jesus is God in the same way that the Jews of Jesus time took Jesus words--as blasphemy."

Reminds me of the moment Jesus asked his disciples who the people thought he was. Similar answers as you give here. But Peter knew who he was and was the second to give that testimony. I think John the Baptist was the first when Jesus came to fulfill John's prophecy at the baptism. So there were at least two early witnesses who received that revelation before the crucifixion.

Can it be said during these latter times (and even through the history of the church) that though there be many who believe that Jesus is the Son of God, they have not yet come to the knowledge that He is the Son of God (the manifestation of the Father), as they have not yet received that Revelation?

It seems like such a simple step but to believe first, and then the walk of faith towards that Revelation. But those who think they are well have no need of a doctor and will continue holding to that which they are familiar with.

Yes, ckilmer, you've described many who still cling to the narrow view, and sadly enough, actually reject the promptings of the Holy Spirit which will lead them to the very threshhold.

237 posted on 12/10/2004 5:01:52 PM PST by Eastbound ("Neither a Scrooge nor a Patsy be")
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