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To: ckilmer
philosphy ends in the personality and character of man theology ends in the personality and character of God.

I also think of it in a similar way. Something with the direction that the two take. There is, of course, theology that ends in the personality of man, because that's where it begins. So where things begin is also a difficulty.

In their most famous works, both Augustine and Calvin begin with the difficulty of a beginning. Neither resolve it by getting rid of one for the other. That's smart. Otherwise you'd have 100% God and no man or 100% man and no God.

There's an excellent little book that has helped me in this regard by Etienne Gilson: Reason and Revelation in the Middle Ages. He compares those schools who hold the priamcy with reason (Averroes)and those who hold the primacy with faith (Tertullian).

100 posted on 12/04/2004 1:31:35 PM PST by cornelis
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To: cornelis

I also think of it in a similar way. Something with the direction that the two take. There is, of course, theology that ends in the personality of man, because that's where it begins. So where things begin is also a difficulty.

In their most famous works, both Augustine and Calvin begin with the difficulty of a beginning. Neither resolve it by getting rid of one for the other. That's smart. Otherwise you'd have 100% God and no man or 100% man and no God.
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two reasons for the paradigm shift away from the arian heresy imho involve man and creation. as to man the problem with the college dictum "Man is the measure of all things."--is this. Man is a very poor/imprecise/fuzzy measure. After all what kind of man are we talking about that is doing the measuring. Is the man short fat tall skinny, black brown yellow or white, an embryo, baby, child, teenager, young adult, middle aged adult, oldster, a doctor, lawyer indian chief, joiner, macdonalds burger flipper, massai warrior. How about a group of men or a group of groups. Hey maybe he is a she or a hermaphordite. ugh. It was a madhouse when I went to college 30 years ago. And worse today according to Tom Wolfe's new book (which I havn't read.) Man is the measure of all things is a hopeless measure even as measure. It doesn't work. Better to set all the measurements out to infinity/eternity/. Infinitely wise, good, powerful, omniscient, omnipresent etc. God is the measure of all things. This is a measure people can work with--and draw a plumb line. Lord have mercy on me for I have too often not loved or trusted you enough. amen.
The problem with the cynics' line of the 19th century "if God did not exist then man would invent him." is that its too smart by half.

As to the creation side of things scientists have hit a wall that has humbled them.(I've seen a link recently
http://www.nypl.org/research/newton/reason.html
to presentation by the new york library of the writings of newton that included his arian heresies as well as his scientific writings.)

as this point I quote from this link:
http://www.tothesource.org/4_14_2004/4_14_2004_printer.htmific writings


In the late 1970s the astrophysicist Robert Jastrow recorded this state of affairs in a book entitled God and the Astronomers. There he argued that the convergence between Genesis and cosmology should cause agnostic scientists to sit up and take notice, and even be a little worried. In one memorable passage in his book Jastrow wrote:

At this moment it seems as though science will never be able to raise the curtain on the mystery of creation. For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries.


112 posted on 12/04/2004 4:04:30 PM PST by ckilmer
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