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1 posted on 11/29/2004 2:57:12 PM PST by blam
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To: blam
In light of present tendencies to bring suit for return of lost treasure, The Templar treasure must have been maintained in their possession after the imprisonment and executions. Were it not so, they would seeking return of the treasure rather than an apology.

The Templars should seek discovery in the Vatican library for all Templar related documents.
90 posted on 11/29/2004 4:45:24 PM PST by bert (Don't Panic.....)
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To: blam

The chalice from the palace has the pellet with the poison
The flagon with the dragon has the brew that is true
or was it
The flagon with the dragon has the pellet with the poison
The chalice from the palace has the brew that is true

Choose wisely


95 posted on 11/29/2004 5:01:26 PM PST by joesnuffy ("The merit of our Constitution was, not that it promotes democracy, but checks it." Horatio Seymour)
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To: blam
Oh man, is this historically confused:

The Templars captured Jerusalem during the Crusades and were known as “keepers of the Holy Grail”, said to be the cup used at the Last Supper or as the receptacle used by Joseph of Arimathea to catch Christ’s blood as he bled on the Cross, or both.

No.  The Crusaders captured Jerusalem as part of the Crusades and established the Latin Kingdoms, with several European kings dividing up the holy land.  During the reign of the third ruler of the Latin Kingdom of Jerusalem, Baldwin II, in 1118...

Hugues de Payens, a knight of Champagne, and eight companions bound themselves by a perpetual vow, taken in the presence of the Patriarch of Jerusalem, to defend the Christian kingdom. Baldwin accepted their services and assigned them a portion of his palace, adjoining the temple of the city; hence their title "pauvres chevaliers du temple" (Poor Knights of the Temple). Poor indeed they were, being reduced to living on alms, and, so long as they were only nine, they were hardly prepared to render important services, unless it were as escorts to the pilgrims on their way from Jerusalem to the banks of the Jordan, then frequented as a place of devotion. (New Advent The Knights Templars).

So much for the Templars having "captured Jerusalem."

As to being "keepers of the Holy Grail," this stems from the legends surrounding the Templars and their rapid rise in power over their nearly 300 year history.  They did set up their headquarters in the lee of Solomon's Temple (today's Temple Mount) in what were identified as King Solomon's stables.  Their quarters extended deep into the Temple Mount and could easily have led them to discover buried relics, including such items as the Grail, the Arc of The Covenant, the Breastplate of Aaron, the True Cross or the burial shroud of Jesus.  All of these have been identified as part of the Templar treasures.  All of the legends could be true, if you believe that these relics were buried beneath the remains of Solomon's Temple. 

I am particularly partial to the implied history of the burial shroud of Jesus and its possible link to the Templars.  Assuming it is real, it would have likely first surfaced as a miraculous cloth within two or three years of the Crucifixion, which was known as the Mandillion (all pre-Templar).  If it had lain in hiding beneath Solomon's Temple and the Templars discovered it and secreted it as one of their holy relics it would have then logically reemerged shortly after the suppression of the Templars, which it did.  It was, in fact, passed on from a "former Templar's" family, to the Cathedral in Turin around 1357.  One of the more interesting tidbits is that, if you take the shroud, fold along the creases that are there, it is "folded in eight,".or a tetradiplon.  This is a possible reference to the Shroud long before it was "discoverd," and folding along those creases leaves only the face visible, the characteristic of the Mandillion (also the Edessa Cloth).

Of course, it is more likely that, if the Templars held the Shroud (real or not) it came to them as part of the sack of Byzantium (Constantinople) in 1205 and not from digging under Solomon's Temple.  Digging under the Temple Mount is obviously where they found the Ark, the Grail and the Breastplate of Aaron (with the Jewels of Power, the Umin and the Thurmin, yes, I'm serious, that's what they were called).  Some also say the found the Seal, the Staff and the Crown of Solomon, himself.  Now those would be powerful artifacts.

Of course, without any need for faith or any belief in these relics (which I have), there is also the little tidbit that the Templars were incredibly wealthy and powerful, even beyond most governments, because they had invented banking and the idea of the bank draft.  Made them the equivalent of trillions for their treasury!  Mundane, but sufficient for a wretch like Philip,

A further bit of historical complication:

“The Papacy and the Kingdom of France conspired to destroy the Order for reasons which modern historians judge to be primarily political. Their methods and motives are now universally regarded as brutal, unfair and unjustified.

Another way of looking at it is that the King of France, Philip le Bel, and his chancellor, Guillaume de Nogart, siezed the Papacy by engineering the imprisonment and murder of Pope Boniface VIII, in 1303, replacing him with a more "compliant" French Pope, Clement V  (Bertrand de Got), and moving the Papacy to Avignon, France in 1305.

The suppression of the Templars is not the fault of the Catholic Church, per se, but is the fault of France! (typical)

Of course, the Catholic Church would be guilty of a massive cover up for nearly seven centuries, to this very day.  All in the name of "real politik."  Nasty.

And of course, if the last bit about "conservative cardinals" preassuring the Pope to “stop saying sorry” for the errors of the past," to groups like the Muslim invaders of Christian lands, "the Inquisition," (mostly ferreting out Muslims, just after throwing them out of Spain after several hundred years of brutal suppression) and "Christian anti-Semitism and the persecution of scientists and 'heretics' such as Galileo" wouldn't it be ironic if the Church apologized to everybody but the one Holy Order that remained true to Christ and their vows, to the end, even when the Pope did not?

Damn the French, anyway.

97 posted on 11/29/2004 5:06:56 PM PST by Phsstpok (Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to reform - Mark Twain)
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To: blam
Then there's the Oak Island Treasure

Oak Island Money Pit

Templar Treasure

106 posted on 11/29/2004 7:49:06 PM PST by Jaded ((Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society. - Mark Twain))
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To: blam

Bump for later read.


109 posted on 11/29/2004 7:53:06 PM PST by wagglebee (Memo to sKerry: the only thing Bush F'ed up was your career)
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To: nutmeg

read later bump


114 posted on 11/29/2004 9:46:32 PM PST by nutmeg ("We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good." - Hillary Clinton 6/28/04)
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To: blam
I'll put in the usual GGG footer, but I'm not pingin' the list. Sidebar tidbit... the Papal proclamation disbanding the Knights of the Temple was never read in Scotland due to some oversight, and soooo, the Freemasons wound up with a "Scottish Rite" (the other major system is "York Rite"; a 33rd degree Mason has completed both systems), and also, after the Battle of Culloden (final defeat of "Bonny Prince Charlie") one of his slain comrades was wearing the coat of arms of the Templars under his armor.
Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on, off, or alter the "Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list --
Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
The GGG Digest
-- Gods, Graves, Glyphs (alpha order)

115 posted on 11/29/2004 9:50:31 PM PST by SunkenCiv ("All I have seen teaches me trust the Creator for all I have not seen." -- Emerson)
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To: blam
...Holy Blood Holy Grail, by Michael Baigent, Richard Leigh and Henry Lincoln, which claimed that Jesus survived the crucifixion and settled in France.

As I recall the book, and I have read it several times, it makes no such hard assertion (although it leaves it open as a possibility). Rather it asserts that Mary Magdalene bore His children, and that she settled in France. Their follow up book also makes the case for a second son who perhaps was raised by followers/family in the British Isles.

I'm not defending either claim, just sick and tired of sloppy reporting and inflammatory and antagonistic characterizations.
138 posted on 11/30/2004 7:44:00 AM PST by BlueNgold (Feed the Tree .....)
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To: blam

bfl


155 posted on 10/06/2007 9:22:08 PM PDT by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly.)
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