Guardsmen Say They're Facing Iraq Ill-Trained

Los Angeles Times ^ | Nov 25, 2004 | Scott Gold

[centurion316]

DOÑA ANA RANGE, N.M. — Members of a California Army National Guard battalion preparing for deployment to Iraq said this week that they were under strict lockdown and being treated like prisoners rather than soldiers by Army commanders at the remote desert camp where they are training.

More troubling, a number of the soldiers said, is that the training they have received is so poor and equipment shortages so prevalent that they fear their casualty rate will be needlessly high when they arrive in Iraq early next year. "We are going to pay for this in blood," one soldier said.

[demlosers]

Uuh, "they" are the National Guard out of New Mexico. This reporter has to use a story from NM to beef up his article which appears to be hearsay. The 30 pairs of night vision goggles being passed around between 200 is very weak support for his premise.

[Ranger]

Anyone that read about the formation of Iraq, the attack on convoys from the occupying Ottoman empire or even watched Lawrence of Arabia would have forseen a civil war with the Sunnis and a convoy ambush outcome. Its a family business in some areas. Don't give me that Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz couldn't forcast this. So next year when we have an election without active sunni participation and a general civil war, they'll probably say they didn't forecast that either. Such nonsense is why DOD shouldn't run intel or state.

[gogogodzilla]

At least in the Air Force, everyone that goes into the National Guard or Reserve who did not come from a previous service in the military gets sent to basic training.

I would think that the Army does the same.

[muawiyah]

Hey, at Dix in March 1967, we had to re-link that same stuff to have something for machine-gun familiarization. You don't think....... naw ........ couldn't'a been.

Remember "wet" sand-sandwiches? There are people walking around today who simply do not believe such stories.

[centurion316]

these allegations are true then it is criminal.

I agree, but we must consider the source, an LA Times reporter with an axe to grind who has rounded up a couple of disgruntled soldiers. I happen to be familiar with their training program, and can say that if it is properly executed, they will be ready. I do suspect that something may be amiss here and will hazard a guess that its almost certainly a leadership problem, at the company or battalion level.

Gotta go eat Turkey, later.

[Ranger]

Unfortunately there isn't much new in this article or on this thread about shortages of ammo, armor, goggles, personnel, fossilized procurement, lack of money, fund diversions and so on. The fact that there is now a need for a troop surge in Iraq will not make more equipment. It will make the problem worse. The failure of this country to move to wartime production on critical items after 3 years of war is hard to fathom.

Its also a sadly recurring theme that low level volunteers and not career military are willing to publicly raise these issues. I've lost count of how many colonels or generals have dismissed these issues or failed to have the guts to point out the problems to congress or Rumsfeld. Fundamentally it is a lack of courage in the career officer corp; not afraid of the enemy, but afraid to put their careers on the line. So be it, I've come to expect that even if I'm unwilling to accept it.

But here's the new rub this article points out and its the danger that being at war for 3 years and failure to address these issues from the White House on down has produced. Its the last line of the article, "My men are guilty of one thing: volunteering to serve their country. And we are at the end of our rope." ... Folks, Freepers can sit in their warm homes stuffying their faces with turkey and pound on their keyboards with greasy fingers, belch, blame it on Clinton or bad luck or normal army gripes; but when a volunteer force believes they've been screwed and that their lives are being needlessly risked, then we're going to have a problem.

[centurion316]

My son is a newbie CA Guard recruit who trained in a different location & deploys shortly. His concerns?

I share your sons concerns, sounds like he's got it pegged. All boils down to leadership, and some guard units are deficient.

[JoeV1]

I checked. There is a shortage of weapons.


You checked what? If you have anything other then anecdotal evidence from a few crybabies then let's see it now.

[centurion316]

Who could have forseen what has happened in stead??

Agree with you here, I certainly didn't see it coming, but when it happened, you've got to leave your ego at the door and fix the problem, DoD too slow to react. BTW, GEN Franks original plan called for two more divisions early on. Didn't happen and the follow-on troops were slow in coming. I don't fault what we thought would happen, I have heartburn with the reaction.

[Chief_Joe]

... The failure of this country to move to wartime production on critical items after 3 years of war is hard to fathom.

...I've lost count of how many colonels or generals have... failed to have the guts to point out the problems to congress or Rumsfeld.

But here's the new rub this article points out and its the danger that being at war for 3 years and failure to address these issues from the White House on down has produced. Its the last line of the article, "My men are guilty of one thing: volunteering to serve their country. And we are at the end of our rope." ... Folks, Freepers can sit in their warm homes stuffying their faces with turkey and pound on their keyboards with greasy fingers, belch, blame it on Clinton or bad luck or normal army gripes; but when a volunteer force believes they've been screwed and that their lives are being needlessly risked, then we're going to have a problem.

Roger -some really know about the underlying causes of this situation, but idiot-ololgy prevents them from saying so plainly, even here on Freerepublic. There's a fear of addressing the risks associated with unwise outsourcing of  manufacturing and technology, but there're consequences to foolish policies that leverage the defense of the nation on other nation's good will. Bottom line, there's a reason we can't produce what we need right now: we're dependent on others to produce it for us.

[First_Salute]

Bump.

[Paperdoll]

Can jailbirds escape punishment by enlisting? Where did these bellyachers come from, if this is true and not an LAT fairy tale? San Francisco?

[Paperdoll]

>The Bush Administration out to get off its butt and make a committment to material buildup<

Perhaps you are referring to the Congress?

[Snickersnee]

Sounds like Infantry Basic ~ it's possible there are a bunch of NGs here who had not gone through Basic previously. The "lockdown" part sounds familiar, now watch them squeal when their drill sergeants take away their comic books!

This isn't "Basic" and there are no "drill sergeants." This is a National Guard unit undergoing unit-level pre-deployment training. Too bad some of the armchair Alexanders and Barcalounger Hannibals on this thread aren't with them to share their military wisdom. (/sarc)

[Non-Sequitur]

I agree, but we must consider the source, an LA Times reporter with an axe to grind who has rounded up a couple of disgruntled soldiers.

I think that the lives of our soldiers is too important to just poo-poo this. I think it needs to be investigated by someone. If it's exaggerated or false, then no harm done. But if any of it is true at all, then someone's head needs to roll. We've lost far too many good men and women in this war already. It's the duty of the administration and the Pentagon to ensure that nobody is sent there without the tools and training that they need to do the job properly, with the highest probability of returning home safely.

[McGavin999]

Clinton cut our military to 40% of what is was when he came in. We can't go trumpeting that around because....we're in a war. How these troops are equiped will depend on where they are to be used once in Iraq. Most of the country is fairly peaceful. Sometimes these guys are in the large bases and do not patrol. If that's the case, or if they are in the more peaceful areas, there is no need for extensive equipment. They will get the equipment they need when they arrive in Iraq.

I have a good friend who is based in Taji and he has never left the base.

[mystery-ak]

If these troops are at the NTC Fort Irwin, they are getting the best training possible...same training as the reg Army.....whiners, from the Left Coast.....Mike1sg

[Barlowmaker]

I checked. There is a shortage of weapons. Personnel have been buying their own, which in turn, has been confiscated by the military and assigned toward the "most immediate" need.

What is your source?

[Barlowmaker]

We've lost far too many good men and women in this war already.

What is your "acceptable" number of KIAs in this operation?