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To: torqemada; All
Jim Allison is apparently not connected with the website I linked you to. He is (or was) a researcher for something called "The Separation of Church and State webpage". The page I linked you to is copied from there. This webpage probably wouldn't be your cup of tea either, but what do you have to say about Mr. Allison's arguments?

He quotes Barton's book in which Barton supports his claim about Jefferson's influence on the DC school curriculum with the following "Jefferson quote": "I have always said and always will say that the studious perusal of the Sacred Volume will make us better citizens."

Barton has since admitted that this quote is unconfirmed. He is unable to find a source for it and no one else has been able to either. Clearly there are many false quotes going around and there is no evidence that this is not one of them. That certainly has to undercut Barton's case.

Barton states: "Thomas Jefferson, while President of the United States, became the first president of the Washington D. C. public school board, which used the Bible and Watt's Hymnal as reading texts in the classroom. " Note that Barton himself does not claim that Jefferson was responsible for instituting the use of the Bible. Barton just wants his readers to draw that conclusion.

Allison went to the sources quoted by Barton and did not find support for Jefferson's direct influence on the DC curriculum. In one of Barton's references he did find an explanation for the beginning of the use of the Bible in DC schools that was initiated by after Jefferson left. If Barton was interested in honest historical analysis he should have mentioned these other influences. It is possible that no one other than Allison has taken the time to consult Barton's sources.

Did you know that Jefferson compiled something called "The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth", in which he cut and pasted parts of the New Testament, removing all references to miracles and to the divinity of Jesus Christ? This book is in the Library of Congress. This doesn't sound like the work of someone who was perfectly satisfied with Christian tradition.

BTW I am an atheist but I don't hate Christians. In fact my own son, whom I love and respect, attends an evangelical church and has considered attending seminary. I'd be happy to accept that Jefferson might have encouraged the use of the Bible in a school curriculum if there was evidence to back it up, but the evidence seems incredibly weak and it doesn't fit in with other things that are known about Jefferson's religious attitudes.

46 posted on 11/25/2004 12:48:47 AM PST by wideminded
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To: wideminded; All

“This webpage probably wouldn't be your cup of tea either, but what do you have to say about Mr. Allison's arguments?”

Hard for me to take Mr. Allison’s comments or his research as credible when he is so obviously biased in favor of the absolute separation of Church & State & makes no bones about his utter disdain for what he terms the “religious right.” I tend to believe those people on the “religious right” who argue that there is no Constitutional basis for such a thing because I find nothing in the plain reading of that document which specifically prohibits: prayers at the opening of Congress, worship being held in government buildings, plaques of the 10 Commandments, or references to God in our anthems, pledges, or printed on our currency. Neither do I see any credible evidence that our Founders (not even Jefferson) considered for one moment that the State needed protection from its religious citizenry or the Churches to which they belonged. No sir, it was & is the citizens of these united States who are protected by the Constitution from the overreaching power of an oppressive government, and not the other way ‘round.

It is difficult for me to take seriously anyone who would write in bold letters:

[Newsflash: Barton now admits this quotation is fabricated! Check here for details.]

And, when I go to that link, I find this statement:

“Barton lists the following quotations as unconfirmed (i.e., no one has been able to trace them to an original source):”

Just how does any serious, scholarly researcher make the outlandish statement that because a quotation is “unconfirmed,” it is “fabricated?” No serious, scholarly researcher would….only lawyers resort to this sort of thing. Not surprising, then, when I find that that is Mr. Allison’s profession. I wouldn’t believe ANYTHING he had to say on that basis, alone. It is my considered opinion that the vast majority of lawyers are whores who will do & say anything, if the price is right. I’ve no reason to believe the Mr. Allison is any better after viewing his work & his associations.


47 posted on 11/25/2004 7:39:21 PM PST by torqemada ("Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!")
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