Duck, Microsoft: Firefox Is Coming To Retail Stores (Linux offering OpenOffice & Firefox together)

TechWeb ^ | November 22, 2004 | TechWeb.com

[Eagle9]

Linux operating-system producer Linspire Inc. has found another way to challenge Microsoft: it's offering its OpenOffice.org product suite and the Mozilla Foundation's Firefox browser in a single package in retail channels.

Linspire, formerly called Lindows, positions its OOoFf package to directly compete with Microsoft Office. The OpenOffice.org product enables users to create spreadsheets, presentations, and documents using files in popular formats, including .doc, .xls and .ppt. The Linspire product also enables users to utilize the PDF format.

"Our goal with OOoFf is to help get OpenOffice.org and Firefox into every possible distribution channel," said Linspire CEO Michael Robertson in a statement Monday. "As users grow comfortable with these high-quality open-source products, it makes the migration to desktop Linux a much more practical transition."

The combo OOoFf consists of an installation CD-ROM, documentation materials, and Flash tutorials. The software is compatible with Windows 98 and higher and Mac OS X 10.2 and higher.

Firefox has been downloaded by more than 10 million users, and the browser has taken some market share from Microsoft's Internet Explorer. The Linspire Linux-based operating system has been designed for desktop and laptop computers, and the firm said the new Firefox- OOoFf package should help spur the growth of its Linux operating system.

[MississippiMan]

The problem isn't Open Office and its database compansion MySQL, its Microsoft Office's proprietary format. Its Microsoft not having open source standards that creates the compatibility issues to begin with. With a little bit of work you can still get OOO files and MySQL databases read by MSO.

HUH? I haven't had any problems opening files with MS Office. I've had problems opening MS Office-created files with Open Office. And why on Earth would Microsoft be responsible for whether or not open source software can open Microsoft-created files? That's sheer silliness. Microsoft is in business to make money, not to support the open source movement. And it's Microsoft Word's .doc format that's the world standard for documents; it's Open Office's responsibility to handle those files if it's to be declared "fully compatible with Microsoft Office files."

BTW, I have nothing whatever against Open Office or open source software or Linux. In fact, I've said Open Office is an excellent choice for someone on a tight budget who needs a productivity package.

MM

[antiRepublicrat]

Anyway, the line is blurred. What about individuals who are very technically astute but write fairly destructive viruses like Code Red?

I'm not saying any of it is right, but if you're around the hacker community for long (and I have been, on both sides), you'll notice the difference between a kiddie and a gray- or black-hat hacker. Kiddies are despised by all, while hackers at least go for respect among their peers. I guess I should have added a fourth category: virus & worm writers.

It's also funny how hackers can lose respect by switching sides. This happened to the famous hacker group l0pht, makers of l0pht Crack, who became @stake, then bought by Symantec. Workin' for The Man.

All you are doing by messing with them is proving that they bet wrong.

But then you also get the situation of hackers who break in, do no damage, then notify the owner (even if indirectly) of what happened and how to fix it before somebody more malicious comes around. Like Adrian Lamo who just put himself in the New York Times' op-ed contributors list.

[antiRepublicrat]

I was too afraid of missing an instance to ever add stuff like that to mine though.

We have a certain variable name/parameter in our application that's a bit colorful. However, it is fitting and comes from old UNIX speak. I'm not changing it.

[reg45]

I use Firefox. Drudge is my home page. Every time I go there, it says "Firefox has blocked a popup." And I don't get any popups.

I just confirmed that with my own experiment.

[antiRepublicrat]

That being said, I typically don't lose data from improper shutdown's on Windows or Linux anymore.

Windows Server 2003 a couple weeks ago. Improper shutdown caused several hundred files to become corrupt, with chkdsk taking about 20 minutes to sort through it all, and I had to re-image. Luckily I had just made my data backups, but I still lost a day on it.

[antiRepublicrat]

And it's Microsoft Word's .doc format that's the world standard for documents; it's Open Office's responsibility to handle those files if it's to be declared "fully compatible with Microsoft Office files."

The problem is that with being the world standard comes a responsibility to allow others to be able to read your files. Unfortunately, Microsoft keeps the format closed, preventing perfect compatibility. I'm sure they also have portions patented so they can sue if they feel like killing some competition.

[antiRepublicrat]

In fact, I've said Open Office is an excellent choice for someone on a tight budget who needs a productivity package.

My budget's not tight. I simply prefer OpenOffice.

[MississippiMan]

My budget's not tight. I simply prefer OpenOffice.

And that is most certainly your choice.

MM

[Bush2000]

No, I'm saying that the deployment times aren't equivalent.

Hilarious. IIS 6 has been available for 17 months. And all your cracker buddies have been able to find are 3 minor issues. Meanwhile, you'd like to pretend that those same crackers "forgot" about all of the exploits launched against Apache in the interim -- and didn't apply that same knowledge to cracking IIS 6. Oops. They tried. But they failed.

A "lie" that has been proven true again and again, no matter how much you might wish it to be untrue.

Repeating your lie again and again doesn't make it true, d00d. IIS 6 is simply less buggy than Apache. By all means keep trying to crack it, though. I'll merely laugh at you.

Prove that IIS 6.x is a complete rewrite.

I don't have to. The proof is in its superior quality. IIS 6 simply kicks Apache's ass when it comes to security.

Proprietary, closed-source software is on it's way out. Oracle gets it. Sun gets it. IBM gets it. SGI, HP, Intel, Novell and the US Government all get it.

I'm still waiting for Oracle to open source their DB server. And Sun, Java. And IBM, DB2, ... and so on ... Clue train: Commercial software isn't on the way out, troll. You are.

[Bush2000]

My budget's not tight. I simply prefer OpenOffice.

OpenOffice sucks dead dogs. The usability is horrible compared to commercial alternatives.

[Bush2000]

So Linux has come a long way from its early days when it was hard to install and you had to learn a lot of command-line strings to run it. All you need to do today is click and point a mouse.

"Coming a long way from its early days" won't help Linux find and use my mini-pci wireless drivers on my Dell notebook. It's simply not supported. Which essentially makes Linux unusable on this computer. No thanks. Windows recognizes and installs the driver immediately. I don't have time to waste mucking with drivers and recompiling my kernel.

[antiRepublicrat]

OpenOffice sucks dead dogs. The usability is horrible compared to commercial alternatives.

The usability is about the same as Office, but without the bloat. And with no hint of Clippy. Recently I even tried putting MySQL database fields into a document, and it didn't take long to figure it out.

[Bush2000]

The usability is about the same as Office...

Not according to real-world users.

Office 2003 vs OpenOffice.org

"In any case, all testers liked Office 2003 and said staying with Office would likely provide the smoothest upgrade path. "It'll be easier to introduce Microsoft Office 2003 to users here at FN Manufacturing than OpenOffice because it's a lot more user-friendly than OpenOffice," said Joan Curfman, business systems supervisor at FN Manufacturing. "Training will definitely be more detailed and will take a lot longer on OpenOffice.org because the interface isn't that friendly. Users here have problems using what we already have. They'll probably find OpenOffice.org even more difficult to use and learn."

[P220]

Firefox blocks popups just fine. go to 'tools-options-webfeatures' and check off 'block popup windows'.

[Paridel]

you'll notice the difference between a kiddie and a gray- or black-hat hacker. Kiddies are despised by all, while hackers at least go for respect among their peers

Sure, I recognize there is a difference. I should have been a little more clear, I was just trying to say that personally I don't have a more respect for them. (I'll acknowledged that they are brighter than script kiddies, but that's about it)

I'm well aware of LC. My friend who introduced me to that program recently was hired by the FBI, doing the same thing he always did (I assume at least), but this time against different targets. Or maybe just protecting their systems, he doesn't really talk about it. But if that isn't selling out to the man I don't know what is ;-) But quite honestly, good for him. Better to be the man than not I'd say.

-paridel

[antiRepublicrat]

Office 2003 vs OpenOffice.org

Notice that a lot of it is "It's not the same, therefore we don't know it as well, therefore it's less usable."

[Bush2000]

I don't know how much clearer they can get: "Training will definitely be more detailed and will take a lot longer on OpenOffice.org because the interface isn't that friendly."

[1L]

>>The (OOo) usability is horrible compared to commercial alternatives.<<

Give me some examples. The ONLY one I know of is the lack of a format painter in Word that doesn't exist in the version of OO that I have. Oh, and envelope printing might also be a problem for some users.

What else? My law firm has gone completely to OO and we won't be buying MS Office in the future.

[Bush2000]

It lacks an enduser database such as Microsoft Access. It lacks macro support (which prevents it from loading and using a huge number of corporate documents). Advanced formatting doesn't convert properly. No grammar checker. The thesaurus is crap. Missing reading layout. No Outlook/PIM alternative. In short, it's the Taiwan rubber-dog-crap version of MS Office.

[1L]

>>It lacks an enduser database such as Microsoft Access.<<

That's coming in the new release. MySQL or PostgreSQL along with a knowledge of PHP is better and I've used every version of Access since 1.0. Its as easy to learn the free alternatives as it is MS Access, and you have instant scalability, unlike Access.

>>It lacks macro support (which prevents it from loading and using a huge number of corporate documents).<<

It has a macro language much like VBA. Its templates are much easier to create, as I've created most of my firms' templates from fax covers to appellate briefs over the last year. Specifically what macros will it not run?

>>Advanced formatting doesn't convert properly.<<

Give me an example.

>>No grammar checker.<<

Oh, come on. This is just silly. I've never heard one person mention Word's grammer checker in a feature they needed, in a comparison to another Word Processor like WordPerfect, or any other time for that matter. Go to Amazon Word XP reviews and see how many times the grammer checker is mentioned. If I gave you a dollar for each time, you couldn't buy dinner at Chilis.

>>The thesaurus is crap.<<

In what way?

>>Missing reading layout.<<

What exactly does this mean?

>>No Outlook/PIM alternative.<<

So what? Which version of MS Office did Outlook start appearing in? It wasn't before MS Office 2K, if I recall correctly. It wasn't in 97 nor 95 and obviously nothing before that. Besides, you have Outlook Express, which is free, and other free alternatives such as the Mozilla product. While I use Outlook, I probably won't for too much longer.

>>In short, it's the Taiwan rubber-dog-crap version of MS Office.<<

Exactly how much have you used OO? I've used it for over a year and have no plans to go back to MS Word, for one. Word is one of the buggiest programs I've ever had. I've had problems with the outline numbering scheme since 6.0, and they haven't fixed it.

Don't criticize a program you apparantly know little about.