Bush, Hu Jintao agree on North Korea, Taiwan

Taipei Times ^ | 2004-11-21 | AP

[Lessismore]

DAMAGE CONTROL: US President George W. Bush met the Chinese president in Chile yesterday, apparently voicing sustained opposition to Taiwan's independence

AP , SANTIAGO, CHILE

With fresh support from China in hand, US President George W. Bush hopes to minimize public differences with Asian allies over how to persuade North Korea to abandon its nuclear ambitions and come back to the bargaining table.

On the sidelines of a weekend-long economic summit with Pacific Rim leaders, Bush met yesterday in quick succession with all four of the US' partners in now-stalled talks with the communist regime.

China was first up, and Chinese President Hu Jintao (­JÀAÀÜ) said after the meeting, "We ... exchanged views on the question of Taiwan. I expressed my high appreciation to Bush's adherence to the `one China' policy and the three communiques, and to his opposition to [Taiwan's] independence."

A senior Chinese government official, appearing in Santiago on Friday, said China will push for North Korea to resume negotiations.

"I believe you can never push too hard for a good purpose," said Kong Quan, chief spokesman for the Chinese Foreign Ministry.

Meetings with the leaders of Japan, South Korea and Russia were to follow.

Believing that having all five partners on the same page from a high-profile international summit will have an impact on North Korea, Bush's goal is a tough united front reinforcing a demand that North Korea completely give up its pursuit of nuclear weapons and insisting that any talks with Pyong-yang occur only with all the partners present.

With North Korea demanding economic aid and US guarantees of nonaggression as incentives, South Korea and China, in particular, have suggested it may be necessary to be more flexible.

"We've put forward a realistic proposal and we're not interested, none of us are interested, in sort of negotiating among ourselves at this point," a senior White House official said. "There is something concrete to talk about; the North Koreans need to come back to the table to talk about it."

[tallhappy]

You're comments are apt and why the Bush administration, if they are going down this road as it ppears they are, are doing exactly the opposite to acheieve what they would want.

Maybe, though, they have a strategy and it is to force the issue and have it finally finished with a victorious Taiwan.

I don't know.

[tallhappy]

Nice post. I agree. People here are too sensitive about any criticism of the Bush administration. Bush's administration has done a lot for Taiwan and that needs to be noted and appreciated.

I wasn't happy with Bush/Rice's handling of the E-3 incident.

Me neither. This was before 911. Bush's instincts, though, were right. Remember his initial statement. It was no nonsense and to the point. Let them go. Period. That the ChiComs only had to keep silent for a week or so and we caved in totally and gave out apologies for hitting their plane was not good.

[tallhappy]

Perhaps Bush is attempting to de-fuze ONE problem at a TIME.

I'm not sure what the "one at a time" part means. I know you are referring to N. Korea as the current problem, but what would be the subsequent one to be defused?

I have quaint ideas such as we support freedom over tyranny and democracy over dictatorship and don't turn against our long term allies for a short term gain that is in no way assured of even being acheived.

[tallhappy]

I thought it was Kisinger that came up with the One China policy that every administration has adhered to since.

Yes. The 1972 Shanghai Communique was the first iteration of it.

[tallhappy]

We acknowledge that Formosa/Taiwan is part of China, but they acknowledge that they cannot force Formosa/Taiwan to reintegrate with the political structure of People's Republic of China.

You are right about Kissinger (and Nixon) being the fathers of this policy, but the above does not reflect it.

This is a major problem. Over the decades most people have come to think something along the lines of your description is the policy. And the policy is morphing in to it.

But Kissinger's policy was much more subtle and clever -- maybe too much so.

The one China policy is simply that we acknowledge the Chinese position that there is one China.

[stefanbc]

Historically China has NO history of long distance aggression much less massive attacks around the world. For them it's always about their borders, pushing their neighbors around, seizing territory, immediate security needs.

It serves their interests to put it out on the street that they're big bad and ready to dominate the world. Psych warfare. This is a frightened country historically after umpteen invasions and occupations by foreign powers. It's part of the famous Chinese penchant for tough negotiations and pursuing a moving target. If China dares to attack us (they will not) we will incinerate them and they know this. They are no where as stupid and foolhardy as has been written here,

[FreeReign]

[EGPW]:Nothing can stop them but the fall of the USA economic system which is the integral part that maintains their optimistic growth outlook. D@mn, that puts them in a "catch22" situation doesn't it?

[Quix]:They are quite confident that the rest of the world will come to China for goodies to more than replace the buying power of the USA. And, certainly they have made plenty of 'preliminary' political enroads and various liasons with Europe as well as South America.

The world is changing. Quix, I think your response to the prevailing wisdom is a legitimate one.

[stefanbc]

It's all a diplomatic shell game that has been going on for decades now. No news here actually
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Nothing has changed in this fundamental equation, right. We are encircling China via Japan, Taiwan, India, even Russia, etc. We are keeping them contained and they know it. Economically their situation is fragile, the yuan is crap for example. Politically we all know how a rigid communist system can unravel in a hurry. Bush knows all this and in ratcheting up the pressure on No Korea who will soon crumble. Talk about a weak link!

[FreeReign]

But Kissinger's policy was much more subtle and clever -- maybe too much so. The one China policy is simply that we acknowledge the Chinese position that there is one China.

Can you document that?

[Almondjoy]

Powell works for Bush.. he says nothing and does nothing without his permission.. how could someone be so along for the ride in Iraq yet what to contradict himself at every other crossroad.

The fact of the matter is Powell is doing nothing more than towing the party line on Taiwan that we have towed for nearly 30 years now.. ever since we switched recognition to the mainland.

You can make these comments all you like.. but they don't offer anything in terms of accuracy.. and do nothing to make a point.

It's kind of like you are pointing out that the sky is blue.. or the sun rises in the east.

[FreeReign]

Powell works for Bush.. he says nothing and does nothing without his permission...

The fact of the matter is Powell is doing nothing more than towing the party line...

The anti-Powells here on FR don't understand that or they seem to be afraid to blame Bush, so they blame Powell.

[SunkenCiv]

"Believing that having all five partners on the same page from a high-profile international summit will have an impact on North Korea, Bush's goal is a tough united front reinforcing a demand that North Korea completely give up its pursuit of nuclear weapons and insisting that any talks with Pyong-yang occur only with all the partners present."

Not gonna work. Until China seals the border and helps starve out the dirty bastard running / ruining North Korea (which is an illegal regime anyway -- Seoul is the capital of the one and only Korea), or international force of arms is used, the Bomb production will continue.

[Quix]

I suspect you'd find a list of rationalizing reasons to discount this thread's post:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1285398/posts?page=1

Alas, I think you'd be very sadly very wrong.

---

1) China is huge and enormously complex. In the context of Asia, it is more complex. In the context of the globe, it is even more complex. And, as Scriptures say, we all see through the glass darkly.

2) I believe a number of things about China. My contributing puzzle pieces come from Scripture, prophetic pronouncements of the last 15 years and a total of more than 16 years in China and Taiwan--as well as collecting massive numbers and types of puzzle pieces on the global situation vis a vis Biblical prophecy from massive numbers of sources.

3) Certainly the puppet masters have been and are very diligent about establishing the satanic global world government ASAP. Some contend they've been working on it at least 400 years as various organized groups. Certainly satan has been working on it longer. God still controls the precise timing of everything.

4) The puppet masters showed their hand a bit brazenly during the last election with SKERRY bluntly saying he'd essentially turn control of the US military over to the UN.

5) They have again somewhat covertly made sure that regardless of the massive inputs from conservatives, SPECTER WOULD BE CHAIRMAN of the key Judiciary committee and be an effective gate keeper regarding judges supporting the puppet master's priorities. I don't trust anything he's said or signed. And getting rid of him will be more than challenging.

6) The entire Sentate has evidently been under the puppet masters firm control for at least the last decade or two and perhaps for longer than that.

7) Dimitri Duduman's prophecies concerning China and Russia invading the USA will, in all probability, have SOME degree of fulfillment.

A) THE USA has begun to waffle more and more in it's support of Israel. That coupled with our murder of 10's of millions of children as well as raging other outrageous middle fingers given to God by increasing proportions of the USA population all combine to set the USA up for some serious judgment and discipline by God Almighty.

B) This is logical. IF the USA could remain mighty enough and committed enough to protect Israel, Israel would not need God--just the USA. God is not about to have that remain the case. He will certainly allow our hedonism, and other affronteries to Him, to call down some wholesale traumatic disciplines and terminal time out from our king of the hill status.

C) Russia has it's own long simmering resentments toward us.

D) Add in both prophetic assertions and 'leaks' of secret meetings about such--and it is certainly plausible that Russia, China and others have been planning--?a la puppet masters's initiations?--to attack the USA. Prophetic visions and dreams saw the leaders in various meetings conspiring toward such. Various defectors from the Soviet Union have asserted essentially the same thing. Given merely logic and human nature and the cultures involved, it would also be predictable from those factors alone.

E) I realize that the Mongols were not and are not Han Chinese. However, the cultures and mentalities of the people involved are not that far geographically, nor philosophically and values wise when it comes to TURF. The assertion that China has never been interested in territory beyond it's limited borders is, to me, nonsense. Certainly Gengis Khan's example is but one. Tibet is another. The disputed seas between Viet Nam, Taiwan and the Mainland are another.

F) On top of that, I've had SEVERAL very well connected folks assert to me that it is China's right, destiny and duty to consume Australia--which has so much land and China so many people needing that land. This in the context of this century--some say millenium--being THE CHINESE CENTURY wherein China will become the superpower essentially dictating servitude to the rest of the world. These are not idle threats or fantasies of a few drunken Party hacks. These are serious plans and on the part of the populace, a serious mentality and perspective.

G) They have long resented China's backward status and the real to perceived slights at the hands of the USA and the West. They are ready--more than ready--to stand tall and redress such and then to exercise their perceived destiny and right to be king of the hill for at least this century.

H) Whether including such as Billdo and Shrillery's top secret personal, traitorous sales to Beijing; Beijing's rampant espionage, theft, corrupt purchases from traitors etc., China has been doing all they can externally and internally to not only catch up with the USA technologically but surpass us in key ways.

8) I do believe, to some degree, assertions that the USA has technologies 50 years ahead of anyone else--including all the UFO related technologies. HOWEVER, I'M TOTALLY, 100% CONVINCED that those technologies are essentially in control of the puppet masters. They will be used to establish and maintain control on the part of the global government. I do NOT expect them to be used to prevent Chinese and Russian conquest except by patriotic units of the military refusing the play along with the puppet masters' schemes.

9) I currently am quite convinced that Mexico will join in with China--perhaps believing that the Chinese will give them Aztlan--foolishly believing that. I believe Nicaragua, Cuba, Venezuela and probably France will also aid in the attacks. Probably Iran and perhaps others. I think it likely as others have predicted prophetically . . . that Japan will join with China--perhaps even being 'given' Hawaii--which they've bought a lot of already, LOL, for joining in. I believe Russia will consume the bulk of Alaska. I believe that as some have 'seen' that Russia will set out to kill all Americans in Alaska and a Chinese general to kill all Americans in California--including burying masses of people alive in mass buldozed graves--until the general is assassinated in San Francisco. I believe that after 1-3.5 years or so, the Chinese Christians in the Chinese army will turn and help the Americans fight against the rest of the Chinese army.

10) I believe that the bulk of the midwest will be a more or less no-man's land with neither the Russians nor the Chinese effecting very complete control at all. I don't know how much effective government of any short will exist there.

11) I feel too much like a nap to get into all the reasons from the Chinese culture etc. that I am convinced that they will attack Taiwan and invade the USA. I believe there are more than 3-4 solid reasons from their culture, mentalities, pride addiction etc.

12) I am also inclined to believe that they will do so BEFORE 2008 vs after. They have been making too much noise in such directions. Certainly they are capable of psychological warfare--probably better than we are. And, they are capable of all manner of ART OF WAR subtrafuge etc. But in general, they do not make threats that they are unwilling or unable to backup at all. They spend hours and hours in committees arguing over literally every word in a communique--before and after it's been distributed. And even if just for pride reasons, they'll still lose 100's of millions of citizens if only to back up what a leader said. It's a huge mistake to take all China says as hollow bluster.

I have no doubt stefanbc, that you'll laugh at or at least wholesale trash all I've said above . . . until it comes to pass, should you still be alive, then.

[however1]

I agree, only china can somehow influence NK.

[Quix]

Thanks for your kind words.

I wish I were going to be wrong about it. Just too many puzzle pieces and data points from my collection assert that I'm much more likely to be more right than wrong.

[stefanbc]

Ok Quix I'll take the bait- let's say your fears and suppositions are TRUE? What should we do to counter all this?

[tallhappy]

Can you document that?

Yes. Read the Shanghai Communique. Google it. It's all over the internet.

[Quix]

No bait involved.

It's an issue I've pondered a long time.

I think the only thing we can do is pray and endeaver to live walking close to God.

I am hoping I can go back to Taipei to teach at the university I have taught so many years at by fall 2005 even though I believe that within 1-3 years later Mainland China will invade Taiwan and do God only knows what with the foreigners there.

I live in NW NM--a mostly unattractive target area for such conflicts. However, I believe when calamaties occur, only walking close to God will be of any safety value. And, being in His will for each individual and family will be of utmost importance. Some will be led to places of safety--evidently some even to safe havens supernaturally protected by God. Others to martyrdom.

Somehow, Christ will have an overcoming, glorious, conquering church that even the gates of hell will not withstand. He must plan to grow a lot of us up rather miraculously and instantly as we're far from that state currently.

It is certainly clear that the world government is coming. It is certainly clear that the puppet masters will have increasing control towards that goal.

Somehow, when evil floods in, God will raise up a standard against it. Believers will do great exploits. The light will get brighter as the dark gets darker.

There are hints and a few brief strokes of outline of the future ahead.

1/3 to 2/3 of the population of the world will die. Some have said that Americans will eat their infanticide results while others wait hungrily for loved ones to die--and some won't wait but will hasten the process for food reasons. I believe it will be true, in some areas. Famine is a terrible thing--and probably all the more so to a generation needing two airline seats.

But the whole world [actually, all CREATION] will be in anguished travail--as The Bible says--groaning expectantly, eagerly for the manifestation of the sons of God. . . . evidently to aid in the deliverance from the pollution of sin.

The world will have a massive demonstration in a dying fire-dance of destruction of the end results of SELF-FIRST and God last, if at all.

Then, Christ will show all Creation what He bought to bring about at Calvary and proved at the empty tomb that He had the right to do.

Part of me wishes I had a more practical response. Part of me feels this is the best response I can come up with and the most fitting.

May God be with you and yours.

[stefanbc]

I pray God will keep us safe in our hour of need

thanks

[JockoManning]

Qx, could you please back up your posts with a few facts? I mean, your one- or two- word comments are just so narrow and shallow, especially compared to the comments made by the rest of us here.