Posted on 11/20/2004 6:46:39 PM PST by BenLurkin
VATICAN CITY (AP) - Pope John Paul II warned against attempts to tamper with what he called "the irreplaceable" institution of marriage-based family, saying Saturday that such efforts would deeply wound society. John Paul has been an outspoken opponent of gay marriage.
His speech to participants in a meeting of the Vatican's council on family matters did not mention any specific issues. But it appeared to refer to moves by some countries and cities to recognize marriage between homosexuals and to grant social benefits deriving from marriage - such as inheritance or pensions - to cohabiting couples who are not married.
"Family, based on marriage, is a natural, irreplaceable institution and fundamental element of the common good of every society," the pope said. "Whoever destroys this fundamental fabric of human coexistence, by not respecting its identity and by distorting its tasks, delivers a deep wound to society and often provokes irreparable damage."
His remarks echoed declarations in the Vatican's recently issued compendium of church teaching on social issues. That document stated that "no power can abolish the natural right to marriage or modify its traits and purpose."
AP-ES-11-20-04 2118EST
Because the leaders have fallen away from the faith. They aren't really Catholics. They don't believe in their hearts, and as we see from the daily newspaper stories, they don't even follow the most minimal of laws. It's a sad situation. But at the same time, remember that you still have to get your own soul to heaven somehow, and pointing to the heretic/socialist/pervert priests isn't going to buy you much when you are in front of St. Peter.
Having been raised in a strict Catholic family, I have a belief in God and even a personal preference for Catholic theology, but the things I heard in my parish just made me have second thoughts, some of those people were unreal. Its a heavily Hispanic parish in a very heavily liberal part of Indiana and I`m not exaggerating when I say that they preached FREAKIN LIBERAL IDEOLOGY! The only thing missing was the homo-feminist crap, but the rest was strait out of the RAT party manifesto, class warfare and all.
I've heard a priest explain that this way: that during the 60's, 70's, and 80's, the seminaries that were forming priests overemphasized 'social justice' and underemphasized moral issues. It is my opinion that a lot of people to this day take the church's view of social justice as an endorsement of socialism and embrace it themselves, because that is what was taught for a long time. That priest went on to say that trend is reversing.
As for your beef with the nuns, they were correct when they said you have to go to confession and be a good Catholic. They were speaking to Catholic kids. Non-Catholic Christians are not held to those standards.
Are not the believers in Him the church?
No, the way she said it, no one else but good Catholics and those people who confessed to a priest or received absolution from one could go to heaven, they were either following false religions or were dieing with sins unforgiven by God. According to her a priest was the only person who could intercede with god to forgive your sins and with mortal sins you could not gain access to heaven.
I have no trouble believing you whatsoever. A great many priests believe in the gospel of the social democratic party, whatever it might be called in this country or in some other part of the world. Somehow they have confused liberalism and Christianity. Several popes back in the 1800's explained in the strongest possible terms why liberalism and Catholicism are incompatible. But today's priests and bishops believe a different faith. You're only lucky that you didn't get the "homo/feminist crap" as well. At most parishes you would get to hear that too. Stuff about being "welcoming." And butch ex-nuns dancing around the altar in psuedo-clerical garb.
Yes, it cannot be denied that the Catholic Church today is in serious trouble. They seem to want to be just like the Episcopal Church (gays, druids, etc.) except they are just a few years behind. Kind of like the Republicans often act like they want to be Democrats but just a few years behind. You have to shake the dust off your sandals as you leave those kinds of parishes behind and find some place that preaches and believes and practices the true Catholic faith of 2000 years. Believe me, it doesn't include anything that resembles liberalism in any way.
opus dei
weenie says:
Don't stoop to ad hominem attacks...calm down and try again...I don't mean to bait the church...if that was perceived, it most certainly wasn't intended...
What weenie said:
By the way...I read the Pope's most recent book...I think it was ghost written by John Kerry.
narses says:
What a weenie. First you stoop to 'ad hominem' attacks, when called on them you claim you are the victim of same. Good choice in screen names 'weenie'!
Neither get listened to, so you maybe right. One is a failed politician though, the other the Vicar of Christ on earth. He speaks the Truth, that no one listens is sad but typical of fallen humanity.
"...if he doesn't listen to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or tax collector."
--Jesus
What makes you think that he hasn't? The Vatican has spoken out many times. Even here in Massachusetts, the most vocal critic of the judiciary has been the Church. A statement signed by all of the Catholic bishops here supporting an amendment to the state constitution defining traditional marriage was read in all churches prior to the election.
Yes they do. Remember the parable about the "wheat and tares"? The tares will be thrown in the fire at the end.
But does this change the fact that the Church is "the pillar and foundation of truth"? The Church's body of dogmatic teaching remains unchanged. Our job as lay people is to work to reform the Church, and to pray for the salvation of the tares.
In some way perhaps. This could count as a kind of baptism of desire. The Church teaches that the baptized comprise the Church, although only those who accept in its entirety that which is proposed for belief by the Church are fully incorporated into the Body of Christ.
I did a search of the entire New Testament and could not find that quote in any part...where is it, so that I might read it?
As a lover of the Word, I often use the following University of Virginia resource (the entire KJV of the bible with browse or search access)...thought you might enjoy it...
http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/kjv.browse.html
Matthew 18:17
She was wrong. That's not what the Church teaches.
Thanks...
Howvever, this is said in the context of conflict resolution with a fellow believer.
I suggest it doesn't mean that every time a believer disagrees with a priest or preacher, in any matter, that the believer should be caste out like a pagan or nonbeliever.
I agree with you on that point. But this passage does indicate the legitimacy of an authoritative Church, which is what I believe Aquinasfan was trying to convey to you in response to your statement about Jesus being bigger than any denomination. It's not so much about each of us 'being hung up on our denomination,' but the idea that each member of a church believes that his church possesses the whole of the Truth, or comes closest to it. Such a believer submits to the authority of his church, does he not? Ask anyone in any church on Sunday morning, and he'll tell you he's following Jesus, not a denomination.
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