[Melas]

I want the definer to be the codes of moral absolutes that have always existed, that are essentially the same in every religion in the world, and have been agreed upon by the great moral and intelligent thinkers of history. Such as Edmund Burke, Blackstone, and Jefferson. Not anonymous posters on FR, however interesting such individuals may be. I concur with them, I don't try to surpass them impudently.

Not exactly, but you are getting closer to actually understanding my point.

See, it's not the moral code that I'm particularly interested in. Not that I don't care about the moral code, but that the fact that something is immoral, is not in and of itself sufficient reason to criminalize something. I think that's where we're disagreeing.

I think you see it as black and white. What's immoral should be illegal. I just can't agree with you there.government should only act it absolutely must. Our history is repleat with mistakes when our leaders failed to restrain themselves from acting unnecessarily.

I saw your comments about Jefferson et al to MM, and while I share your admiration of Jefferson especially, I wouldn't necessarily say he was our better. Most strikingly, I'm aware of a markedly different perceptions that Jefferson and I held/hold on racial matters, and yes, I would say that in this case, my views are superior. I've always maintened that the founders were ordinary who did great things, not great men. Certainly not perfect men. There are no perfect men.

[little jeremiah]

I agree - I certainly don't think the men I quoted are perfect.

Although I disagree that there are no perfect men, in the sense that "perfect" means without any taint of ignorance, illusion, selfishness or dishonesty. I consider that to be our natural condition, although buried very, very deeply.

Everything immoral should not be illegal! Crap, we'd all be on death row.