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To: Long Cut

The government has a duty to protect citizens from external enemies and internal enemies. Libertianism is a utopian philisophy that will never work in the real world.

Better minds than yours have figured it out. How about Edmund Burke, the philosopher who greatly influenced many of the founders of our country:

"Men are qualified for civil liberty in exact proportion to their disposition to put moral chains upon their own appetites--in proportion as their love of justice is above their rapacity;--in proportion as their soundness and sobriety of understanding is above their vanity and presumption;--in proportion as they are more disposed to listen to the counsels of the wise and good, in preference to the flattery of knaves. Society cannot exist, unless a controlling power upon the will and appetite is placed somewhere: and the less of it there is within, the more there must be without. It is ordained in the eternal constitution of things, that men of intemperate minds can not be free. Their passions forge their fetters."
-- Edmund Burke

And Thomas Jefferson, known for his wide ranging intellectual searchings, and not known for slavishly adhering to a particular doctrine:

"Reading, reflection and time have convinced me that the interests
of society require the observation of those moral precepts ... in
which all religions agree." --Thomas Jefferson

But all who want pornography, and they want it now, will continue to not listen. Such is life. There are none so blind as those who refuse to see and keep their eyelids tightly shut no matter what.



465 posted on 11/25/2004 1:45:58 PM PST by little jeremiah (Moral absolutes are what make humans human.)
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To: little jeremiah
The government has NO responsibility to protect free citizens from themselves.

Eating up its resources to "protect" people from something that IS NOT forced upon them, and which citizens partake of, or not, in the privacy of their own lives is patently ridiculous.

Why do you want so badly for the government to control the private lives of others?

466 posted on 11/25/2004 1:51:19 PM PST by Long Cut (The Constitution...the NATOPS of America!)
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To: little jeremiah; Melas; Long Cut; Modernman

How very, very true. Only a society with a culture with strong internal moral restraints can be free.

Look at Islam and its unfitness for democracy. Men who demand that women carpet themselves from head to foot with cloth and be isolated from social contact with other men are men who think about rape all the time. Men with no internal restraints, men who apparently cannot control themselves at the sight of female flesh, need despotic restraints to maintain order among them.

That is the fundamental foolishness of libertarianism. Only a society with a strong culture can have weak government. Only a society in which ostracism and disgrace are potent sanctions, only a society where "what the neighbors will say" matters, only a society that in fact would never, ever, regard the use or presence of pornography as acceptable can be libertarian. Government expands when cultural norms no longer hold and laws have to fill the receeding space of honor, morality, and fear of disgrace. The more monocultural a society is, the weaker the government it can have because the coercion of law is replaced by the coercion of ostracism to control negative behavior.


477 posted on 11/26/2004 4:15:42 AM PST by Sam the Sham
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To: little jeremiah; Modernman

So by that measure, anything that is unmoral should be outlawed. May I ask who gets to define what is moral? you keep pulling these quotes about morality then assigning them to your cause of abolishing pornography based on the assumption that since you believe it is immoral then it is there by qualified as immoral. I do not agree with the way you are twisting the founding fathers words.


490 posted on 11/26/2004 9:51:32 AM PST by Ksnavely
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