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Prince's blast at people who get above their station
UK Yahoo News ^ | November, 18, 2004 | By: KAREN MCVEIGH

Posted on 11/18/2004 9:07:41 AM PST by softengine

PRINCE Charles's latest pronouncement on British society - that its schools are imbued with a culture of "social utopianism" responsible for people getting ideas above their station - was laid bare at an employment tribunal yesterday.

In a scathing memo, written to a third party in response to a request from a former Clarence House secretary for more training at work, Charles complained that young people nowadays think they can be pop stars, high court judges or even heads of state without putting in the work or having the "natural ability".

The secretary in question, Elaine Day, was described in the memo by Charles as "so PC it frightens me rigid".

Ms Day, who is claiming sex discrimination and unfair dismissal against the prince's household, described it as "hierarchical and elitist", an institution run in an "Edwardian fashion" where everyone knew their place and those who did not were punished.

A personal assistant to private secretaries at Clarence House for five years, Ms Day told the tribunal she was forced out earlier this year because she "rocked the boat at the palace". She said she was left "isolated and humiliated" after complaining about sexual harassment from her boss, assistant private secretary Paul Kefford.

Clarence House has said it will "vigorously" contest the case, which is being heard in Croydon, south London, and is expected to last three days.

The memo was written by the prince in response to a suggestion by Ms Day that personal assistants with university degrees should be given the opportunity to train to become private secretaries, the hearing was told.

In the memo, the prince wrote: "What is wrong with everyone nowadays?

"Why do they all seem to think they are qualified to do things far beyond their technical capabilities?

"This is to do with the learning culture in schools as a consequence of a child-centred system which admits no failure.

"People think they can all be pop stars, high court judges, brilliant TV personalities or infinitely more competent heads of state without ever putting in the necessary work or having natural ability.

"This is the result of social utopianism which believes humanity can be genetically and socially engineered to contradict the lessons of history."

The memo concludes: "What on earth am I to tell Elaine? She is so PC it frightens me rigid."

The note, dated March 2003, was a response to a suggestion made by Ms Day to Mr Kefford.

Ruth Downing, counsel for Ms Day, asked her what she understood it to mean.

"I completely felt that people could not rise above their station," Ms Day replied.

The secretary, from Belvedere, Kent, said a campaign of discrimination had been launched against her in an attempt to "remind her of her place" at Clarence House.

Ms Day claimed the problems started after her former boss, Mark Bolland, then the prince's deputy private secretary, left in August 2002 and she began working under Mr Kefford.

She said that she felt "uncomfortable" as soon as she started working for Mr Kefford.

"He would approach me from behind at the photocopier and put his hand on my back and rub it, He would also touch my arm and shoulders and that made me feel uneasy."

She told the tribunal she was one of three female members of staff who were sexually harassed by the prince's assistant private secretary. After an event in August 2002, she said: "I didn't ever want to be put in a position where I was alone with him, ie working late at night, going into his office and shutting the door."

She said that she first complained in August 2002 and made a formal complaint in October.

Ms Day said that when she raised her concerns to Prince Charles's private secretary, Sir Michael Peat, he replied: "I thought he was gay."

Ms Day said that, after her complaint, she had been subject to "continuing acts of discrimination, victimisation, harassment and undermining behaviour" by senior staff.

She said that she experienced "ongoing discrimination" until she left in April this year.

She added: "I was aware of a culture in the household, which stemmed from His Royal Highness the Prince of Wales, that the respondent [the prince's household] would not welcome employees which it perceived rocked the boat. This was made abundantly clear to me."

She told the tribunal how she had been "put in her place" on a particular trip to Holyrood Palace in June 2003. On that occasion, she was given an attic room to sleep in alongside domestic servants rather than a room with the rest of the office staff.

She said: "I appreciate that the fact that I had been confined to the attic with the domestic staff may seem a trivial matter, but working in the household it's all about status, hierarchy and knowing one's place.

"Putting me up in the attic with domestic staff, away from the other office staff, has clearly been done to humiliate me and remind me of my place.

"At the end of the day I am not the first person to consider that if you go against the palace, steps will be taken to isolate you."

Ms Day added: "I simply felt that I had nowhere to turn, I felt totally isolated."

The tribunal continues.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: englad; princecharles
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"This is the result of social utopianism which believes humanity can be genetically and socially engineered to contradict the lessons of history."

Direct and accurate.

Nicely done. ...I'm liking Charles more and more these days.

1 posted on 11/18/2004 9:07:43 AM PST by softengine
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To: softengine

I don't see a problem with encouraging kids to reach fo the stars, as long as you don't teach them to think they are entitled to be a star -- in this world, that will depend on native merit, skill, hard work, drive and luck.


2 posted on 11/18/2004 9:10:11 AM PST by Unam Sanctam
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To: softengine
People think they can all be pop stars, high court judges, brilliant TV personalities or infinitely more competent heads of state without ever putting in the necessary work or having natural ability

That line sums it all up for me. The "entitlement" culture that permeates education, not only in England, but also in the United States makes kids believe they'll be handed good jobs in whatever field they wish, regardless of whether they have any ability in that field, regardless of whether they are willing to work long and hard to learn what they need to learn to perform on the job. It's sickening, and I love the Prince Charles is calling them on it. Success requires work, leftists, no matter how much you try to change it. No one owes you anything. You only attain it if you earn it.

3 posted on 11/18/2004 9:11:43 AM PST by Jokelahoma (Animal testing is a bad idea. They get all nervous and give wrong answers.)
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To: softengine



Memo from someone who was born into his station...


4 posted on 11/18/2004 9:13:01 AM PST by Galroc
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To: softengine
Nicely done. ...I'm liking Charles more and more these days.

Charles is kind of a strange man, but I've rarely disagreed with his opinions on society and politics.

5 posted on 11/18/2004 9:14:31 AM PST by Modernman (Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. --Benjamin Franklin)
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To: softengine

I wonder if she has witness statements from the other females who were allegedly sexually harassed. If so, then she has a good chance of winning buck bucks, er, a fistful of dollars. You know what I mean.


6 posted on 11/18/2004 9:14:49 AM PST by Ciexyz (I use the term Blue Cities, not Blue States. PA is red except for Philly, Pgh & Erie.)
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To: softengine
I agree with his sentiments, but the Prince left himself wide open with this remark:

"People think they can all be pop stars, high court judges, brilliant TV personalities or infinitely more competent heads of state without ever putting in the necessary work or having natural ability.

He was born to his position, it was a matter of having the right parents. Born to a middle class family, he probably would have made a dull but solid middle class Englishman.

7 posted on 11/18/2004 9:15:47 AM PST by xJones
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To: softengine

Well..he is training to be King of England...not that that means much. It would be better news if there was actually something in her performance of duties or work habits that back up his statements. I thought that her request showed some drive and initiative, but if her particular natural abilities were in question you would think that would be the basis for this. Of course, being the Prince of Wales, Prince Charles may have seen the request as beneath him and is indirectly calling into question her job performance, thus not sullying himself in the management operations of his Jr. staff. Interesting read though.


8 posted on 11/18/2004 9:15:47 AM PST by KurtAZ (If we aren't supposed to eat animals, why are they made out of meat?)
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To: softengine
We hold these truths to be self-evident; that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights; and that these rights include life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness; ...

You have the right to pursue any station you want, but the attainment of that station is going to be a function of how much effort you put into that pursuit and the natural ability God endowed you with. You're not going to get it (or at least be deserving of it) because you belong to the right group or are a member of an underrepresented minority.

9 posted on 11/18/2004 9:17:21 AM PST by RonF
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To: softengine

He may be right, but he's about the last person on earth who should be saying it.


10 posted on 11/18/2004 9:17:45 AM PST by Sloth ("Rather is TV's real-life Ted Baxter, without Baxter's quiet dignity." -- Ann Coulter)
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To: Galroc
I'm no lover of hereditary monarchies, but Charles himself never said "rise above their station". The secretary took it that way, which indicates a lack of critical reading skills in my opinion. None of us possesses the skills or natural ability to be good at everything. I, for instance, will never be a nuclear physicist. I can ask for on-the-job-training all I like, but I still won't be good at it.
11 posted on 11/18/2004 9:18:09 AM PST by brothers4thID (I have knocked on door of this man's soul- and found someone home.)
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To: softengine
I don't feel sorry for either of these two characters, Prince Charles obviously thinks he is better then his underlings, but obviously he doesn't consider that he 'lucked out' being born into a royal family, there is nothing here that shows me he is actually better suited to be in a higher position then anyone else. He might actually be worse off, because he is disconnected from the reality of life, since he has probably been pampered all his life.

The lady, I don't feel sorry for her either. If she knew this type of harassment happened in these high places, she should just find herself another job, but I guess suing for millions is easier then actually having to work for a living. She also sounded rather snobbish that she was made to sleep in a room next to the servants, like that's suppose to be bad.

I don't see any good guys in this article.

Charles, just because you're born a prince doesn't mean you are better qualified for anything.
12 posted on 11/18/2004 9:18:21 AM PST by Stringfellow Hawke (#6: Be seeing you!)
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To: softengine
"Putting me up in the attic with domestic staff, away from the other office staff, has clearly been done to humiliate me and remind me of my place.

The woman doesn't have anything against heirarchy. She simply objects to being placed at the bottom.

13 posted on 11/18/2004 9:18:48 AM PST by liberallarry
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To: Galroc

Remember that a Royal Family believes that they were put in that place by God and are in training all their lives to be statesmen. I don't entertain to even understand the mindset, but I realize that it is a situation and environment that I will never experience.


14 posted on 11/18/2004 9:19:39 AM PST by KurtAZ (If we aren't supposed to eat animals, why are they made out of meat?)
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To: softengine

One more reason we threw his overbearing dictatorialness relative out of America freeing ourselves from the arbitrary rule of the likes of his hinneyness...

We might not all know our stations...but we certainly know where he is coming from...and without so much as a 'bye your leave your majesty'...

While it can be said that cream rises to the top....it can also be said that crap floats...

The royals are pretty much proof of this later 'methaphorical' axiom

imo


15 posted on 11/18/2004 9:20:10 AM PST by joesnuffy ("The merit of our Constitution was, not that it promotes democracy, but checks it." Horatio Seymour)
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To: softengine

The headline and much of the thrust of the article is simply false. If you read Charles' actual remarks, clearly he is not talking about "station", heredity, birth situation, etc. Instead, he is talking about achievement and competence. Two completely different concepts. But it doesn't fit the media's preconceptions or agenda, and so they have had to twist meaning beyond recognition in order to create a phony row.


16 posted on 11/18/2004 9:21:42 AM PST by The Electrician
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To: softengine
"She is so PC it frightens me rigid."

Now that's Edwardian alright. ; )

17 posted on 11/18/2004 9:22:55 AM PST by anniegetyourgun
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To: softengine

I think the headline is misleading - Charles is clearly talking about meritocracy and achieving merit through natural ability and hard work, not being born into a station. This phenomenon is common in law firms where some paralegals carp about how they know law better than the lawyers and it's not fair that they get paid less. I do know some pretty dumb lawyers, but every one of them has somehow managed to put in the work to graduate 3 years of law school and pass the bar.


18 posted on 11/18/2004 9:23:09 AM PST by FateAmenableToChange
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To: joesnuffy
There's much more to this story I would assume than the article states. First off, this was what the woman asked for:

The memo was written by the prince in response to a suggestion by Ms Day that personal assistants with university degrees should be given the opportunity to train to become private secretaries, the hearing was told.

I don't think anyone here would think this is an outrageous suggestion. However, there were accusations of sexual harrassment. Now, that's what we are really talking about. Did the "sexual harrassment" come before or after she was denied her request. I think the harrassment came WAY after, probably in her lawyers office when they were trying to come up with some way to get money out of the Royal Family.

19 posted on 11/18/2004 9:24:07 AM PST by Hildy (The really great men are always simple and true)
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To: softengine

BTTT


20 posted on 11/18/2004 9:25:58 AM PST by Fiddlstix (This Tagline for sale. (Presented by TagLines R US))
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