Replies

Hey, I'm pro-life and pro-death(penalty). Why? For the same reason that I'm pro-life and pro-miltary, or why I work for the government in a weapons lab (not currently, time off for school right now).

In my pre-grad school days (when I had free time!, and by the way, I really shouldn't be posting now, I should be doing research...) I often liked to think about the origin of government, that is, why and by what right does it exist?

Of course I always like reading the classics, like John Locke's 2nd treatise, because they were pretty easily understandable. He basically argued that we voluntarily give up some rights to the government so that the governmental body could prevent one individual from imposing himself on the rights of another. Gross oversimplification, but as a libertarian I suppose you would partially agree? Government stays out of your life except to the extent needed to make sure other individuals stay out of your life?

Anyway, so that brings us to crime and punishment. Which seems to be the basic reason that governmental bodies exist. Now I believe the reason that punishments for crime exist is not to seek vengeance, but rather as a disincentive for future crimes. (well, and for crimes such as theft, if possible to seek restitution for the victim. but obviously this is not the case with murder). To enforce punishments the governmental body will have to obviously step on freedoms of the culprit, but this should be done only to a reasonable extent depending on the crime. However in the case of a life being taken we want to provide the maximum disincentive to prevent future murders. Ideally we want to give up the minimal personal freedoms to the government while still gaining the necessary amount of protection from others.

The death penalty works far better than other punishments in my humble opinion. It (in an ideal world without all the litigious appeals we have added in this culture) is the minimization of the oppression of personal rights by the government for the protection of life (a personal right) from other individuals. That's my opinion anyway. Which incidentally should make it ideal from a libertarian viewpoint. (note: I am not strictly a libertarian myself)

So here as a libertarian you should question whether or not my statement is valid. (that is, is the death penalty really the minimization of personal rights given to government for the protection of my personal rights from others). If not, then I am giving up personal rights to the government for nothing.

To be perfectly clear these are the reasons I believe it is:
1. It is a much much stronger deterrent
2. The state would (ideally) not have to pay for living expenses for the lifetime of the criminal.

Ok, so the 2nd point doesn't hold valid in today's society, but I believe the 1st is still enough to make it valid. I think a book which has some interesting insight into this is The Blank Slate by Steven Pinker. Don't agree with all of the book, but it is an interesting read. It is not solely about this issue, but it covers it as well as many others.

-paridel

so that brings us to crime and punishment, which seems to be the basic reason that governmental bodies exist. Now I believe the reason that punishments for crime exist is not to seek vengeance, but rather as a disincentive for future crimes.

You are putting words in the mouths of liberatarians and beating them over the head with it. The function of government in the libertarian universe is not crime and punishment - that is an old testament view of things. The libertarian view would be that the government should act to protect individual liberty, life, and property rights. To the extent that restraining and punishing criminals is necessary to accomplish that then it is just, but vengence against criminals is not a function of goverment in the libertarian universe. In the libertarian view, redress against criminals would be more in line with civil penalties - that they should make restitution for the wrongs they have committed.

In fact, re vengence - "Vengence is mine sayeth the lord" - a teaching that our "Christian right" cannot seem to keep in mind when in their anger, envy and bloodlust they seek to strike out against those they disagree with.

Well I guess I am different in that I don't mind paying taxes to keep a son of a bitch murderer locked up for life rather than get the easy lethal injection way out. It just seems to me hypocritical, and it is not a punishment for the murderer. That person may not go to hell so as long as they confess their sins and believe in the Lord, so why kill them? They are getting the easy way out. Let them sit for years and years and years with no freedom in there, and that IMO, is punishment.