Posted on 11/13/2004 6:05:41 AM PST by cpforlife.org
Capital punishment isn't murder. The commandment, once again for you slow ones, is "Thou shalt not murder," not "Thou shalt not kill."
When I was 18, I was a pro-abort. It's a convenience thing. There's nothing noble there. I even realized it at the time. My thinking was, yeah I'm probably taking a life, by it's my life to take, because that life depends on my existence. I was never deluded enough to think it was really my right, only my opportunity and convenience. Nothing noble, all base.
I was fortunate in that I was raised Catholic, had wonderful Nuns who would have laughed at the intellectual vacuity as I advanced my argument. Also, they would have said, lie to yourself on your time, we don't allow that here. Ditto for my Mom.
With age, and a greater proximity to one's mortality, wisdom has a better chance at emerging.
And let's face it, Science is not on the side of the pro-aborts. Cutting up babies in utero, and flushing them down some pipes to some sort of landfill cannot remain our legacy. Those babies are precious children of no lesser God.
You: Thankfully the majority of people in this country are smart enough to know such an opinion is asinine. If every person who is pro-life followed your way of thinking, we'd now have President Kerry and a Congress overwhelmingly controlled by Democrats. Then we could look forward to a Supreme Court controlled by hardcore liberals with maybe Thomas and Scalia the only conservatives left.
I have no idea what you are talking about.
The rock-solid core of the Grand Old Party is constituted of committed pro-lifers. They just won a victory of historic proportions.
Excuse us if we don't take kindly to a bunch of RINOs attempting to rob us of the fruit of that victory: The advancement of a return to a culture that respects innocent human life.
No, a Just War can exist. Read your theology or get out, troll.
To the baby, it makes no difference whether its life is 'gouged out' in a clean or a dirty environment.
"I don't think kjvail was referring to the U.S., its laws, government, people, and land mass as the subjects of that authority, were you, kj?"
Perhaps this will answer both questions.
Christians are called to be the "leaven in society" and "a light unto all nations"
Properly understood the role of government in society is to provide for the common good, with an eye towards man's "last end". This is expressed most eloquently by H.H. Pope Leo XIII in IMMORTALE DEI and in DIUTURNUM among others.
If so how does one know what God's will really is?If so, then who do we trust as the true interpreters of God's will and how will the enforcement take place?
God's will for mankind has been revealed to us in the deposit of faith which consists of the written Word (scripture), the spoken Word (Sacred Tradition) and the living Magesterium (synod of Bishops in union with the Pope) of the Holy Catholic Church.The Church founded on the "rock" of Peter was guaranteed, by Christ, for all time "never to pass away", "not even the gates of Hell" would prevail against it. Christ has been good to His word, the Catholic Church has endured for 2000 years despite the worst the world and Satan himself could throw at it. In matters of faith and morality She cannot teach error.
History of Western Civilization 101
The balance of power in society has always been a delicate matter between the Church and the civil power. By the late Middle Ages (11th - 14th centuries) a stable balance existed.
Kings (Queens and Emporers) regarded themselves as father's of their people. Their authority came from God, as approved by the Church. Their actions were circumscribed by the moral teachings of the Church. The political structure was an interwoven net of oaths and allegiances solidified by tradition. It was built on the principle of subsidiarity (decentralization).
It was a truly organically developed system that grew from the ruins of the western Roman Empire.
You might study The Holy Roman Empire for an example.
The Reformation and later Enlightenment secularism and liberalism shattered all that. The balance of power shifted and state became supreme, indeed unchallanged in modern secular democracies. The result has been war and atrocity on an unprecendented scale, in the 20th century alone those states murdered 200 million of their own citizens.
I accept the first clause, not the second.
Your rejection of the reality that the argument exists is irrational. We have no way to resolve it, so would you lose by default.
No, you are asserting the second clause as fact,
Read 'arguably' again. It means my second assertion is open to question.
-, that unborn human beings have no rights.
Straw man.. That's simply not true. At later stages of pregnancy the unborn child has rights, -- as Scott Peterson just found out.
-- We're done. Take the last word. Feel free to shoot down yet another position I haven't made.
No, abortion is murder. The death penalty is killing. The commandment proscribes murder, not killing. The OT called for capital punishment for quite a few things, including dishonoring one's father and mother. You can make social arguments for and against capital punishment; you can make legal arguments about it, but it's tough to pull one out of the Bible on it.
There was a time in America when we shared a common understanding of what was right and what was wrong. Even little kids know the difference. Of course, they have not yet been infected with the twisted thinking of the Left.
If morality had been an issue in this election cycle, Mr. Keyes would have done better in Illinois.
About 1.4 million Illinoisans understood the difference...even in the face of an avalanche of media, RAT and RINO scorn.
In fact, he turned out less votes than he should have.
Yeah, those so-called Repubublicans who followed the lead of their hardcore left leaders and supported Obama should be ashamed.
That is a clue to what doesn't ail us Republicans--and to what issues concern Americans.
Believe me, comparing yourselves to the corrupt leaders of the IL GOP is not a flattering picture.
Fact is, Illinois is at least a decade behind the moral and the political curve. The corruption is long-standing in both parties, and won't be cured easily or quickly.
Hate to quote a Democrat, but can't resist in this case:
I just keep telling them the truth, and they think it's hell! ;-)
Dear tpaine,
I accept that the argument exists, I just assign no validity to the argument. It is a counter-factual argument. Thus, no merit is given to it, no weight assigned to it.
You could also say, "Do you accept the fact that the earth is made out of an abundance of different sorts of materials, and that the moon arguably is made out of green cheese."
There! If you said such a thing, the argument that the moon is made out of green cheese would exist! That doesn't mean anyone is obligated to pay attention to it.
You may assert whatever you wish, that doesn't mean I have to give it any credence whatsoever.
Folks asked Abraham Lincoln, "If you call a tail a leg, how many legs does a cow have?"
He answered, "Four. Just because you call a tail a leg doesn't make it one."
"Your rejection of the reality that the argument exists is irrational."
Actually, your making an obviously false argument is irrational. I suppose that it is you that loses by default.
As does any argument that tries to make legitimate a legal "right" to procuring the death of one's unborn child.
sitetest
You assert fact A and then fact B and suppose causation. The 19th and 20th centuries saw war and atrocity on an unprecedented scale because our weapons got better, not because we got worse. The Roman church has perpetrated quite a few of its own atrocities and on a fairly large scale for the times...perhaps the capacity to sin lies equally in all of us?
Thanks for the history, kjvail. Can you give me a simple 'yes' or 'no' to my question? Thank you.
Fogitaboudit. Those who think the GOP is pro-life will be continuously disappointed. Using a Moynihan phrase 'it is boob bait for the bubbas'.
Luddite.
Yeah, and you want to know what the Republicans thought the most Grave issue surrounding abortion was in 1970?
Cheer up, part of the Episcopal Church will separate and return to the world communion in a healthy manner. Change is good.
I'm not too worried about it. The Church manages to survive everything we throw at it. Of course that is the Church Catholic, not the Roman Catholic church. ;>)
Luis Gonzalez; cpforlife.org
Since the GOP Platform is congruent with his post, why isn't the onus on you to answer that question?
Hey... Yeah....Narses is right...as usual!
Luis answer the Question!!!!!!
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