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PRO-LIFE WARNING TO THE REPUBLICAN PARTY
A 2004 pro-life thread brought back to life | 11-13-04 | Vicomte13

Posted on 11/13/2004 6:05:41 AM PST by cpforlife.org

PRO-LIFE WARNING TO THE REPUBLICAN PARTY

We believe that abortion is infanticide, and that a holocaust of infants is taking place. We do not believe that there is any other issue on Earth that compares with abortion in moral import. And therefore, there is no policy or combination of policies you Republicans can offer, including perfect tax policies, tort reform, and every other thing that is near and dear to Republican hearts, that matters a damn if abortion is overlooked and allowed to slide by.

We know that this issue has to be settled in the Supreme Court, nowhere else. And we know that the opportunity to put new justices on the court comes once in a decade, maybe, and that the current opportunity to alter the complexion of the court is not going to come again for a generation. Therefore, the real possibility exists that abortion can finally be seriously curtailed, soon, by the Supreme Court changing Roe v. Wade or eliminating it...IF, and ONLY IF, we can get pro-life judges on that court.

To do that, we have trusted the Republicans for years. We just came out and voted for you again this time, in unprecedented numbers, because we are not stupid and we know what is at stake. Not just evangelicals either. The religious CATHOLIC vote went Republican in 2004, and they didn't do it because of trade policy or even gay marriage. Their issue is abortion.

And the overriding issue is abortion.

So, if the Republicans allow Senator Specter to get the Chair of the Judiciary Committee and he blocks pro-life nominees, or if the Republicans do not use the nuclear option to override Democrat filibusters of pro-life nominees, THIS TIME there is no place for Republicans to hide. WE KNOW that you have the power, now, because WE just voted to give it to you. We understand that you can block Specter. And we understand the nuclear option.

And therefore, we most certainly will understand that if you allow the pro-life judges to be blocked, that it will be your political CHOICE to have done so. You CAN put pro-life judges on the bench, if you expend a lot of political capital. This will offend some people - a lot of people. And that is the price you HAVE to pay to get our votes next time. You have to be willing to bet the whole house to end infanticide.

If not, we will not vote for you. We won't go running to vote for the Democrats: they're pro-abortion. We won't go out and form a third party: we're not stupid and know that won't work. We'll just stay home, just like we did in 2000. Except that in 2000 it was out of frustration and neglect, and the lack of belief that anything will change. There was no organized campaign to keep the pro-life vote home in 2000.

This time, it's different. We understand the system, and we know that you have the power. And we demand that you use the power straight down the line to fill the high court and the appellate courts with judges who will protect the lives of babies. Period. This is not negotiable. At all. This is why we voted for you. You have nothing with which to bargain with us, and if you screw us, we will stay organized and we will stay home purposely to destroy the Republican party. Because if you do not protect the babies when you have the power to do it, you are no better than the Democrats...and worse, you will have lied to us.

This means, in effect, that all of those things YOU care most about: taxation, immigration, trade and business policy, deregulation - all of those core issues that come as an economic package, are held hostage to our issue: babies. If you will not protect the babies, we will stay home and let the Democrats destroy everything that YOU believe in.

This is called "Chicken". It is called a "Mexican Standoff". And since we are fired up by the certitude that we are doing God's work in defending babies, we cannot be bought, and you cannot win so much as an election for dog catcher in this country without us.

Therefore, the solution is simple and obvious: give us what we voted for you to do. Give us pro-life judges. Use all of your power to do it. Sweep Specter out of the way: is he worth losing all the rest of your agenda? - because we really will stay home and throw the country to the Democrats if you're no better than they are on abortion, just to punish YOU for having betrayed us. When the filibusters come, and they will come, use the nuclear option to override them. That will poison the Senate, yes. So what? We are talking about babies here. And with our votes, militantly mobilized because we are winning, alongside of yours, in 2006 and 2008 and beyond, even if the Senate is poisoned, you will be able to replace it with a more Republican one.

That there is even a debate going on as to what to do with Specter is alarming, but we have had our hearts broken before, so we'll sit and pray and trust President Bush and Senator Frist and the Republicans to do the right thing.

Screw us, though, and we will turn on you and your whole agenda will go down the drain with the blood of the babies you wouldn't put your power on the line to save.

The easy solution, the win-win solution, is to BE as pro-life as you campaigned as being. Just do it.

I apologize for the length of this post. But it needed to be said. The Republicans do not seem to get it. They need to understand that we are more committed to saving babies than we are to the fortunes of the Republican Party. That Specter is still in play demonstrates that too many of them do not take this seriously.

Rather than test us, what you guys should do is simply cave, now, and give us what we want. Do that, and you wont hear from us again - there will be no creeping theocracy in America - because this is about the only religious issue that Catholics and Orthodox and Evangelicals AGREE on.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: elections; gop; prolife
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To: jwalsh07
You see the facts as you wish them to be.

I don't see what you see. You are correct about that.

1,661 posted on 11/14/2004 8:44:26 PM PST by Cold Heat (There is more to do! "Mr. Kerry, about that Navy discharge?")
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To: WhistlingPastTheGraveyard

The first "volley" was fired exactly eight responses into the thread.

You took umbrage with my post.

Telling...


1,662 posted on 11/14/2004 8:46:24 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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To: jwalsh07
The states have codified the unborn as persons.

It doesn't matter what individual states have done. Individual states don't get to define who a person is for the purposes of the 14th amendment - its a constitutional issue.
1,663 posted on 11/14/2004 8:46:26 PM PST by JeffAtlanta
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To: Cold Heat
I don't see what you see.

Don't worry about it, hindsight is 20/20. You'll see soon enough. :-}

1,664 posted on 11/14/2004 8:48:00 PM PST by jwalsh07
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To: jwalsh07
Hmmmm......If it does not happen as you predict, I could say that both of us will be disappointed, but one of us more than the other.:-)
1,665 posted on 11/14/2004 8:51:34 PM PST by Cold Heat (There is more to do! "Mr. Kerry, about that Navy discharge?")
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To: JeffAtlanta
It doesn't matter what individual states have done. Individual states don't get to define who a person is for the purposes of the 14th amendment - its a constitutional issue.

Really? Will SCOTUS overturn Petersons conviction for murdering his unborn son?

Does the Constituion constrain states from expanding individual rights?

When SCOTUS upheld the non personhood of black folk in Dred Scott, were they correct and within their power to do so?

1,666 posted on 11/14/2004 8:52:25 PM PST by jwalsh07
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To: cpforlife.org
*I have never seen you comment on a Pro-Life thread*

Even if true (and it's not), that's relevant, ummmm, how?....

*Now you come on simply to criticize someone who is trying to hold the GOP to their stated values*

Wrongo, sport. I came onto the thread to criticize the language used by a so-called "Christian." No Christian I know (and being one myself, I tend to know quite a few) would ever think the phrase "Screw us" or any of it's variants to be acceptable language, especially in public--and in WRITING on an open Internet forum to boot! The *message* of the post I don't really have that much of a problem with (though it is stated in the manner of a petulant child); the specific *language* I refer to could sure use a cleanup, especially coming from a so-called "Christian."

*My first impression of you is one who moans and groans but does little or nothing to actually help or even offer constructive criticism*

Boy, that'll sure be keeping me up late at night, pacing the floors, worrying about *your* "first impression" of *me* alright...(snicker)...


*You offer heat but no light. I am singularly unimpressed*

Gee, that's funny...this whole thread has been one big flame-fest that *YOU* started, and here you are accusing others of offering "heat" but "no light." That's called "projection." And while we're wrapping things up, let us note that you have yet to address my point: what kind of "Christian" uses language like "Screw us," especially in public for the whole world to see? None that I know of, for sure...but nice try at a dodge.
1,667 posted on 11/14/2004 8:53:56 PM PST by A Jovial Cad ("I had no shoes and I complained, until I saw a man who had no feet.")
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To: jwalsh07
Really? Will SCOTUS overturn Petersons conviction for murdering his unborn son?

Ya know, this could become a issue for their plate.

If the death penalty is imposed as a result, it might, and I say might, be something they may look at.

They will certainly have plenty of time however. He would not be executed for more than twenty years or so.

1,668 posted on 11/14/2004 8:57:41 PM PST by Cold Heat (There is more to do! "Mr. Kerry, about that Navy discharge?")
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To: Cold Heat
My only disappointment will be the lost lives of Americas children that occurs in the interim. Roe is destined to go the route of Dred Scott. Technology is helping in that respect. The advancing age of baby boomers is also helping, their progeny are more pro life than they were. States are passing laws protecting the unborn and the tide is moving in that direction. I'm an optimist.

You can never go wrong defending life and defending America amigo.

1,669 posted on 11/14/2004 8:57:46 PM PST by jwalsh07
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To: jwalsh07
jwalsh, I'm sorry, but individual states just don't get to define constitutional issues. You might not like it but its reality. Row V Wade may be wrong, but the decision stands until it is reviewed again or overturned by constitutional amendment.

Individual states just can't pass legislation that overrides this - they can try, but they just can't.
1,670 posted on 11/14/2004 9:02:05 PM PST by JeffAtlanta
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To: jwalsh07
I too am optimistic for the future of the human race, but my time frame is a bit longer.

Certainly things happen faster now then before now, but I would be surprised to see anything but tinkering.

I shall be watching intently however.

1,671 posted on 11/14/2004 9:03:20 PM PST by Cold Heat (There is more to do! "Mr. Kerry, about that Navy discharge?")
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To: Cold Heat
Murder is a legal term. It is not in the bible.

Of course not. No English words are in the Bible.

But harag the Hebrew word is in the Bible, and it appears many times in different forms. One is specifically "murders".

In fact to further "harag" your argument here is one instance:

8 He sits in ambush in the villages; in hiding places he murders the innocent. His eyes stealthily watch for the hapless,

9 he lurks in secret like a lion in his covert; he lurks that he may seize the poor, he seizes the poor when he draws him into his net.

10 The hapless is crushed, sinks down, and falls by his might.

11 He thinks in his heart, "God has forgotten, he has hidden his face, he will never see it."

12 Arise, O LORD; O God, lift up thy hand; forget not the afflicted.

Ironically, the verse I happened upon is fitting for this thread.

1,672 posted on 11/14/2004 9:04:07 PM PST by Syncro
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To: JeffAtlanta

You answered not a single question I posed Jeff. How come?


1,673 posted on 11/14/2004 9:04:15 PM PST by jwalsh07
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To: Long Cut; jwalsh07; Luis Gonzalez; sinkspur
One of the many reasons I am not "prolife" as is commonly defined here is the abysmal conduct and frankly insane behavior of the more extreme factions of that movement.

The debate on abortion in the public square is mostly spam. That does not excuse each of us from reaching our own considered judgment, without being put off by the nutjobs on either side. I have had the same view on abortion since I was in college, when I was quite vocal about it. It should be legal in the first trimester, illegal in the third, and I'm not sure about the second. It should not be a matter for the courts to decide. It is a matter within certain limits, about which intelligent people of good will can disagree. We should not demonize each other within those limits, as being morally flawed cretins, one way or the other.

That is how I see it and call it.

1,674 posted on 11/14/2004 9:04:26 PM PST by Torie
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To: jwalsh07

States can expand the rights of the fetus, up to and until such time as Sandra Day O'Connor tells us that it intrudes on the Constitutional rights of the mother to abort. States characterizing killing of the fetus as murder without the consent of the mother is legally inapposite to this issue, even if otherwise apposite up to a point. Maybe SCOTUS will tell us that since a fetus is not human, killing it cannot be characterized as murder (because murder is only applicable to one who cannot be legally aborted) as a Constitutional matter. But if so, it will require other legal tools than pernumbra rights of privacy. It will require SCOTUS to tell us what the Constitution dictates are the essential definitional elements of the crime of murder.


1,675 posted on 11/14/2004 9:13:40 PM PST by Torie
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To: Torie

1,676 posted on 11/14/2004 9:14:48 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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To: Syncro
And from that you have determined that "Harag" means the same as "Murder" a English word derivative that means illegal killing.

I suppose it could be said to be a unsanctioned killing since permissions would have been needed for killings that did not meet the proper killing etiquette of the time, (if there was any).

But I thought "murder" was a bit of a stretch. As it comes from English law.

1,677 posted on 11/14/2004 9:15:09 PM PST by Cold Heat (There is more to do! "Mr. Kerry, about that Navy discharge?")
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To: jwalsh07
Really? Will SCOTUS overturn Petersons conviction for murdering his unborn son?

No idea, its a different court now. They just might though. Does the Constituion constrain states from expanding individual rights?

Trick question. Not at the expense of someone else's.

When SCOTUS upheld the non personhood of black folk in Dred Scott, were they correct and within their power to do so?

Doesn't matter - it was still law of the land. An ammendment made that decision moot.
1,678 posted on 11/14/2004 9:15:50 PM PST by JeffAtlanta
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To: Torie
The case, and others like it, will be the next battleground in the SCOTUS. You know it, I know it and the dems and republicans with half a brain know it.

Its the reason why the next appointment will be a bllod bat and why Bush needs to appoint a rock solid justice who will abide the Constituion and avoid the penumbra like the plague it is.

1,679 posted on 11/14/2004 9:18:00 PM PST by jwalsh07
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To: Torie
It will require SCOTUS to tell us what the Constitution dictates are the essential definitional elements of the crime of murder.

And they most certainly are not looking forward to it.

1,680 posted on 11/14/2004 9:23:34 PM PST by Cold Heat (There is more to do! "Mr. Kerry, about that Navy discharge?")
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