Posted on 10/29/2004 7:16:19 AM PDT by Pikamax
Germany asks will Queen say sorry? Fri 29 October, 2004 05:44
By Alexandra Hudson
BERLIN (Reuters) - Germans are waiting to see how the Queen refers to Britain's 1945 bombing of Dresden when she visits next week, now that they are speaking more of their own war-time suffering and breaking a long-standing taboo.
Just days ahead of the Queen's first visit since 2000, a row has erupted in the British and German press over whether the air raids were justified and whether the monarch should apologise.
Dresden was devastated in a firestorm which killed some 35,000 people just three months before the war's end. The fate of the eastern city has come to epitomise civilian suffering.
"Will the queen say sorry?" asked the country's largest selling newspaper Bild on Thursday.
The queen will host a concert in Berlin to raise money for Dresden's cathedral which lay in rubble for 50 years and is now a focus of German and British reconciliation.
"Such delicate gestures of reconciliation are probably too complicated for newspapers like Daily Mail and Daily Express to understand," wrote the Berliner Zeitung daily.
ANGER IN BRITISH PRESS
Talk of an apology has angered populist newspapers.
"Krautrage" said a headline in the Daily Star tabloid.
"Sorry, the Germans must never be allowed to forget their evil past," wrote columnist Simon Heffer in the Daily Mail.
A Buckingham Palace spokeswoman was quoted in Germany's Der Spiegel newsmagazine saying the Queen had not been asked for an apology. But she added: "The Queen is very conscious of the suffering of all people during the war."
The queen's three-day visit aims to focus on the future relationship of Britain and Germany.
On a visit to Britain two weeks ago German Foreign Minister Joschka Fischer said he was amazed at the lingering portrayal of Germany in the British media as a nation of Nazis.
It was long considered unwise and even dangerously nationalistic for Germans to question whether Allied bombings were necessary or legitimate but German historian Joerg Friedrich did just that in 2003 in a best-selling book.
Ahem. Actually a decent Scottish girl. She was a daughter of the Earl of Strathmore ( which sounds like it should be a good malt whiskey) a Scots earl. The family was famous for its longevity even before she hit a hundred.
They didn't compensate the victims that lived in the communist countries...
Until today, I am still furious that Germans and Germany were allowed to go scot-free almost... Dresden was only a little retribution, not enough!
A pity there weren't more like him!
Too many muderouds beasts (and that what most of the Germans were) were allowed to get scot-free for their crimes...
Why should the queen apologise?
Hitler started a war in 1938 and offered Britain and America most gracious invitations to join in.
It would have been most impolite to refuse.
If Bild has an issue with that, we might suggest that they take it up with their Herr Hitler.
Actually, until relatively recently the Germans have been relatively circumspect and honest about their war guilt (at least publicly). But now with the increase in the politics of victimology plus the current Leftist obsession with ethnic pride and belief that anyone the United States has ever fought must be have been a "good guy," they may well start catching up with the Japanese in rejecting their responsibility.
Got to agree with you. The audacity of the Germans, has no limits!
"Got to agree with you. The audacity of the Germans, has no limits!"......german is as german is...
Hey if the Germans hadn't bombed Pearl Harbor, these kinds of things won't happen. (sorry, couldn't help myself)
Hello? Of course the Germans have apologized for the Nazi crimes! And unlike any other country on earth that has committed crimes against humanity, it was Germany paying billions to the victims and building a football-field large monument to commemorate the killed Jews in the center of its capital.
I have been a lurker for about two years now (love this forum), but now felt compelled to write. Let me first introduce myself. I am half German and half English, though my English father left us when I was six. I feel more German than English, having lived in Germany all my life (except for a couple of months in England and a year I spent in the US), but I am more than just proud of my partly English heritage. Unfortunately my English is not as good as it could or should be. In about half a year I will (hopefully) graduate from my history study. In consider myself a moderate conservative, who hates political correctness. After I have bored you to death with the story of my life, here is what I think:
a) In Germany it has long been a taboo to talk about the sufferings the German people experienced throughout WW2. Make no mistake, suffer they did. And most of those that suffered did probably not support Hitler. It is important to be able to handle those sufferings, and the German WW 2 generation has been denied to do this by the political left in the years after the war. Even though the Germans did start this war and brought more suffering over the world than they experienced themself. So while the Germans surely should be able to talk about THEIR suffering (and they have just started to do so a couple of years ago), the sad thing is that at the moment the German people and media tend to neglect the connection between Germany starting the war and the sufferings experienced by Germany. This, however, is not a sign of renewed nationalism, as you and many other foreigners tend to think. It is more due to the fact that all the grief and sorrow, built up over decades, now is able to vent. The WW2 generation soon will be no more, and I think it is a good thing for those people to be finally able to voice their grief before they die.
b) I think that most Germans have learned their lessons from WW2. It frightens me to see what kind of an impression some people here or in England have when they ask questions like "Do they tell pupils about the Holocaust in Germany?". The Holocaust is very well known in Germany, there is a plethora of documentaries about Germany´s WW2 crimes on TV every week. German war crimes are a BIG topic within the curricula of German schools, be it in history lessons, German lessons (reading books like the Anne Frank diary) or in music of even art. Sometimes I have the sad impression that people in the US and unfortunately even more in the UK have this preconceived impression of the German people and just jump at everything that could confirm this impression. E.g.: The recently released movie "Der Untergang" (The downfall) was criticised abroad for "showing Hitlers human side" or even brought in connection with "the Germans are sympathizing with Hitler again". What happend there? A female British journalist who hadn´t even SEEN the movie wrote an article about it, which was widely copied in the Anglo-American press. How EVERYONE who had seen that movie can feel sympathy with Hitler or the Nazis is ABSOLUTELY beyond me. This movie shows just how evil Nazism was by showing that they Nazis were "just human", the film itself is really good.
c) It is embarassing that the German tabloid BILD now asks if the Queen will say sorry for Dresden. Absolutely. I can not stress this enough, and that is the German part talking in me, not the English. I am very proud of Britain of standing up against the Nazi tyranny all alone for a whole year and I shudder when thinking what might have been when Britain had given in after France had fallen (and this was not so far from happening... there´s a good book on this, I have forgotten the name). I can understand the old people on any side, who have actually suffered in WW2, to focus on THEIR own experiences. However, a paper, made mostly by people who never experienced WW2, is acting shameful in asking this question while nowhere mentioning that it was Germany that started that war. So BILD deserves all the fire it gets in this thread for asking this question. So do all the Germans that are fine with this question being asked.
d) It is not so easy to finally evaluate the necessity of the strategic bombing campaign in WW2. You can´t just easily say that it was deserved/justified, because no one right in their mind can say that children and women deserved to die just because they were German. OTOH one must not forget that it was the Germans that started strategic bombarding on a "larger" scale and I have no doubts that, had they had the Allies´ capabilities, the Germans would have done the same to Britain. However, there is a large difference between the bombing of Coventry or Rotterdam, and those of Dresden and Hamburg (just look at the number of dead). There was, and it´s sad to say so, another difference between the intention of the Britsh and the US SB campaign. The US´ aim was to destroy Germany´s war making capability, while the British aim was to terrorize the German population so much, that it rose to topple the Nazi regime. The Americans targeted industry (in the process destroying large parts of cities, because 1940 tech was not that much precise...), while the British deliberately targeted civilians. In the last months of the war German cities were obliterated not for a military reason, but just the capacity was there and it had to be used. This has even be concluded by the official US study after the war.
Histoy is partly written by the victors. Take for instance the German and the American submarine campaigns in WW2. The American campaign bascially achieved (helped a lot by the poor Japanese ASW capacity) what the Germans tried to do. I don´t remember which American admiral said so, but after the war he was quoted with saying "Had we lost the war, we would all have been tried as war criminals."
e) I am really tired of people blaming solely Germany for WW1. There is no doubt about WW2 (even though there are some maniac authors who try to prove that there were others to blame for WW2). But WW1 is FAR more complex than just "Ze Germans started it". I am really sick of people who take their knowledge from their hillbilly highschool history books. So I am asking YOU personally XXX, because you just made that statement: WHY was it Germany that started WW ONE?
Thank you...
This is, by far, the most intelligent comment
about it I´ve read here for ages.
PS: You`ve read "Der Brand", right?
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Hun
Now that was classy.
(Do I really need to put irony tags around this? Didn´t think so.)
Thank you. I DID read "Der Brand". The book itself was somewhat tedious to read, but nevertheless:
a) there is no revisionism in it
b) it is a necessary comprehensive study of the impact of the strategic bombardment campaign on Germany.
Such a study has been lacking up to this time.
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