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1 posted on 10/13/2004 12:54:03 AM PDT by politicket
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To: politicket

I guess this is one reasons JF'nK will not sign his 180 Navy release form. Also, I suspect that putting YOURSELF in for medals would not play well with the American electorate. I wonder how long it will take CBS and the NY Times to pick up on the story? LOL!


192 posted on 10/13/2004 5:38:03 AM PDT by Agent Smith (Fallujah delenda est. (I wish))
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To: politicket

Tom,
I read the subject article. Although I wholeheartedly agree that Kerry needs to sign an SF 180 authorizing the release of his military records, I don't think there is an issue concerning his Honorable Discharge. Based on my personal experience, Kerry received his Honorable Discharge under the standard process, which obtains for naval officers transitioning through the Reserve process.

On July 1, 1972 Kerry was transferred from the Inactive Reserves (subject to recall, but no drill obligation), to the Standby Reserves. Similarly, I was transferred into the Standby Reserves in November 1972 after resigning my commission and being released from active duty in November of that year. I did not receive my Honorable Discharge until Feb 16, 1978, the same date as Kerry. I received the same letter as Kerry.

The Navy has a board, which meets annually I believe, that decides what officers should be retained in the Standby Reserves or removed and given an Honorable Discharge. The decision is based on skills and Navy personnel requirements. Officers are involuntarily separated as a standard procedure. I think you are reading to much into the Clayton letter, which contains boilerplate language.

The story about Kerry's Reserve status should be about his activities in the antiwar movement, including meeting in Paris with the Vietnamese Communists while still being a member of the Naval Reserves subject to recall. Initially, Kerry's website listed his military service as 1966-1970 --Active Duty and 1972-1972--Navy Reserves. This was revised to the current timeline, John Kerry for President - John Kerry's Service Timeline, which contains some questionable entries and his meant to obscure his status during the period 1970-2.

Kerry's new timeline states that January 3 Kerry requested a discharge. This is incorrect. Kerry was released from active duty on Jan 3, 1972 and transferred into the Inactive Reserves. (See http://news.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/jkerry/releaseactduty.pdf and
http://news.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/jkerry/rqsthistserv.pdf)

Kerry's new timeline also lists March 1, 1970 as his "date of separation from active duty." This is clearly incorrect. Finally, they use the date of April 29, 1970 to indicate that Kerry was a "Registrant who has completed service." This designation means that Kerry is no longer subject to the draft. Obviously, the Kerry campaign is deliberately trying to create the impression that Kerry was out of the Service entirely after April 1970. No mention is even made of his Reserve status or Honorable Discharge. This is being done because Kerry realizes he is vulnerable to criticism concerning his participation in the antiwar movement while still a member of the Naval Reserves subject to recall.

I hate to rain on your parade, but the timing of Kerry's honorable discharge tracks with my personal experience. The Internet has been filled with the speculation you mention in your article, i.e., the Carter connection. It just doesn't jibe with the facts and documents we already have.

Re Kerry's medals: As I have previously written to you, Kerry requested his new medals in 1985 as replacements for the ones he threw away in 1971. He admitted he threw them away at the time and then changed his story subsequently that the threw away his ribbons and someone else's medals. He was telling the truth in 1971 and is lying today. What we really need is a copy of his request in 1985 for replacement citations/certificates/medals. Kerry claims they just requested replacement citations and certificates because he knows that replacement medals would undermine his current story, which was most recently mentioned to Charles Gibson on GMA earlier this year.


199 posted on 10/13/2004 5:50:16 AM PDT by kabar
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To: politicket
Without out a doubt the reason Kerry will not sign 180.

Finally the MSM may start to pick up this issue - he has bad paper and it was covered up.

211 posted on 10/13/2004 6:01:45 AM PDT by LowNslow (Retired CWO)
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To: MistyCA

This is the link to the story re your thread last night.


212 posted on 10/13/2004 6:02:14 AM PDT by Grampa Dave (When will the ABCNNBC BS lunatic libs stop Rathering to Americans? Answer: NEVER!)
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To: politicket
The document is dated February 16, 1978. But Mr. Kerry's military commitment began with his six-year enlistment contract with the Navy on February 18, 1966. His commitment should have terminated in 1972.

Its simple: He re-upped for another six years in Cambodia, keeping the world safe from Richard Nixon!

214 posted on 10/13/2004 6:04:41 AM PDT by HenryLeeII ("I own a lumber company? Didn't know that. ... ... Want some wood?" -GWB, Oct. 8, 2004)
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To: politicket

Navy veteran opinion-

I dont know if this is posted yet, but this reeks to me of a discharge upgrade through the US Navy Board for Correction of Naval Records (BCNR).

This would account for the time delay, medal re-issues, and a bunch of Kerry's actions.


219 posted on 10/13/2004 6:10:34 AM PDT by judicial meanz
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To: politicket

BTTT!!!!!


223 posted on 10/13/2004 6:19:01 AM PDT by Former Dodger ((Go W GO! Finish off the US Rats, then the Muslim ones!))
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To: politicket
Hmmmmmm. Wouldn't that previous, less that honorable discharge paperwork, make a devastating October surprise for the Kerry campaign? Now, who do you suppose might just have that paperwork and have a great motive for slipping in to a favorite journalist? There's only one name that comes immediately to mind.
224 posted on 10/13/2004 6:22:25 AM PDT by finnigan2
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To: politicket
A Kerry campaign spokesman, David Wade, was asked whether Mr. Kerry had ever been a victim of an attempt to deny him an honorable discharge. There has been no response to that inquiry.
229 posted on 10/13/2004 6:32:46 AM PDT by T. Buzzard Trueblood ("the bribed, the coerced, the bought and the extorted."-John Kerry on our allies)
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To: politicket

bttt


230 posted on 10/13/2004 6:33:27 AM PDT by PajamaTruthMafia
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To: politicket
That's worth saying again...

There has been no response to that inquiry.

231 posted on 10/13/2004 6:33:52 AM PDT by T. Buzzard Trueblood ("the bribed, the coerced, the bought and the extorted."-John Kerry on our allies)
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To: politicket
Kerry has not released lots of stuff:

He has not released his war documents
He has not released divorce documents
His wife has not released her financial records
232 posted on 10/13/2004 6:34:02 AM PDT by poinq
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To: politicket
 
From: WinterSoldier.com
Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 2:07 AM
Subject: RE: Navy SEAL examines Kerrys Military Record SEALED MILITARY RECORD?

Good analysis.  We're not convinced that Kerry had a drill obligation as an inactive Reserve, though...  see John Moore's article on that topic:
 
http://ice.he.net/~freepnet/kerry/staticpages/index.php?page=notAWOL
 
Thanks and regards,
Unlike McCain, Bush, and Gore, Kerry has adamantly refused to authorize the release of his military records. Most think it's because of his phony battle medals. I think the real reason is below. He was not granted an Honorable Discharge until March 2001, almost 30 years after his ostensible service term had ended! This is very much out of the ordinary, and highly suspect. There are 5 classes of Discharge:

Honorable, General, Other Than Honorable, Bad Conduct, and Dishonorable.

My guess is that he was discharged in the '70s, but not honorably. He appealed this sometime while Clinton was doing trouser-tricks in the Oval Office. Political pressure was applied, and the Honorable Discharge was then granted. His file is probably rife with reports of this, submissions and hearings on the appeal, reports of his "giving aid and comfort" to the enemy, along with protests that were filed with respect to his alleged valor under fire. This will blow up in his face before October 15th. On 18 Feb. 1966 John Kerry signed a 6-year enlistment contract with the Navy (plus a 6-month extension during wartime).

On 18 Feb. 1966 John Kerry also signed an Officer Candidate contract for 6 years - 5 years of ACTIVE duty & ACTIVE Naval Reserves, and 1 year of inactive standby reserves (See items #4 & 5). Because John Kerry was discharged from TOTAL ACTIVE DUTY of only 3 years and 18 days on 3 Jan. 1970, he was then required to attend 48 drills per year, and not more than 17 days active duty for training. Kerry was also subject to the Uniform Cod! e of Military Justice.

Additionally, Kerry, as a commissioned officer, was prohibited from making adverse statements against his chain of command or statements against his country, especially during time of war. It is also interesting to note that Kerry did not obtain an honorable discharge until Mar. 12, 2001 even though his service obligation should have ended July 1, 1972. Lt. John Kerry's letter of 21 Nov. 1969 asking for an early release from active US Navy duty falsely states, "My current regular period of obligated service would be completed in December of this year." On Jan. 3, 1970 Lt. John Kerry was transferred to the Naval Reserve Manpower Center in Bainridge, Maryland.

Where are Kerry's Performance Records for 2 years of obligated Ready Reserve, the 48 drills per year required and his 17 days of active duty per yea r training while Kerry was in the Ready Reserves? Have these records been released? Has anyone ever talked to Kerry's Commanding Officer at the Naval Reserve Center where Kerry drilled? On 1 July 1972 Lt. John Kerry was transferred to Standby Reserve -Inactive. On 16 February 1978 Lt. John Kerry was discharged from US Naval Reserve.

Below are some of the crimes Lt. Kerry USNR committed as a Ready Reservist, while he was acting as a leader of Vietnam Veterans Against the War:

1. Lt. Kerry attended many rallies where the Vietcong flag was displayed while our flag was desecrated, defiled, and mocked, thereby giving aid and comfort to the enemy.

2. Lt. Kerry was involved in a meeting that voted on assassinating members of the US Senate.

3. Lt. Kerry lied under oath against fellow soldiers before the US Senate about crimes committed in Vietnam.

4. Lt . Kerry professed to being a war criminal on national television, and condemned the military and the USA.

5. Lt. Kerry met with NVA and Vietcong communist leaders in Paris, in direct violation of the UCMJ and the U.S. Constitution. Lt. Kerry by his own words &actions violated the UCMJ and the US Code while serving as a Navy officer. Lt. Kerry stands in violation of Article 3, Section 3 of the US Constitution. Lt. Kerry's 1970 meeting with NVA Communists in Paris is in direct violation of the UCMJ’s Article 104 part 904, and US Code 18 U. S. C. 953.

That meeting, and Kerry's subsequent support of the communists while leading mass protests against our military in the year that followed, also place him in direct violation of our Constitution's Article 3, Section 3, which defines treason as "giving aid and comfort" to the enemy in time of warfare. The Constitution's Fourteenth Amendment, Section 3, states, "No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-president, having previously taken an oath to support the Constitution of the United States, [who has] engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof."

A. L. "Steve" Nash, MAC Ret, UDT/SEAL Director, AuthentiSEAL "The only service where all investigators are US Navy SEALs" http://www.authentiseal.org/


236 posted on 10/13/2004 6:39:21 AM PDT by crushelits
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To: politicket

Yeah I find that very suspicious too.. that little explanation of his that I threw the medals away and had to have them re-instated that is bunk. When the Awards are issued in permenant record you never have to re-apply for them. Throwing medals away in protest means nothing to the actual record... your DD214 doesn't change hell I lost a couple of awards and citations my self and I certainly can't find all of my medals... This is very suspicious... If he did get an other than honorable, Bad Conduct or Dishonorable then all awards would have been removed and if he later petitioned to change the status of his discharge all the awards would have to be resubmitted and recreated.. It certainly explains the Lehman signature on the Silver Star... Why has no independent group throughly gone over the entire history here... He said I should be president because I am a war hero.... Now is he or isn't he...


245 posted on 10/13/2004 6:52:33 AM PDT by tomnbeverly (If John Kerry wins I guess I'll see ya in the Bread Lines)
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To: politicket

Nowadays the state bar application asks if you recieved an other than honorable discharge.

These applications are no small beans. They are the basis for admitting you to the bar.

I wonder if that information is in any way subject to FOIA requests?


247 posted on 10/13/2004 6:57:24 AM PDT by Notwithstanding
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To: politicket; Kelendrios; Skwidd; marineguy; tongue-tied; ActiveDutyUSMC; dakine; bkwells; ...

Stolen Honor Free clips of Kerry anti war documentary by POW's

http://www.stolenhonor.com/documentary/samples.asp

Send this url to your e-mail lists and media contacts.

Media contacts in all 50 States

http://congress.org/congressorg/dbq/media/


253 posted on 10/13/2004 7:10:47 AM PDT by 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub (GET OUT THE VOTE NOV 2 ! IF YOUR NEIGHBORS OR RELATIVES NEED A RIDE TO THE POLLS OFFER TO HELP)
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To: politicket; Grampa Dave; Alamo-Girl; onyx; ALOHA RONNIE; SpookBrat; Republican Wildcat; Howlin; ...
Mystery Surrounds Kerry's Navy Discharge

Excerpt:

An official Navy document on Senator Kerry's campaign Web site listed as Mr. Kerry's "Honorable Discharge from the Reserves" opens a door on a well kept secret about his military service.

The document is a form cover letter in the name of the Carter administration's secretary of the Navy, W. Graham Claytor. It describes Mr. Kerry's discharge as being subsequent to the review of "a board of officers." This in it self is unusual. There is nothing about an ordinary honorable discharge action in the Navy that requires a review by a board of officers.

According to the secretary of the Navy's document, the "authority of reference" this board was using in considering Mr. Kerry's record was "Title 10, U.S. Code Section 1162 and 1163. "This section refers to the grounds for involuntary separation from the service. What was being reviewed, then, was Mr. Kerry's involuntary separation from the service. And it couldn't have been an honorable discharge, or there would have been no point in any review at all. The review was likely held to improve Mr. Kerry's status of discharge from a less than honorable discharge to an honorable discharge.

A Kerry campaign spokesman, David Wade, was asked whether Mr. Kerry had ever been a victim of an attempt to deny him an honorable discharge. There has been no response to that inquiry.


Please let me know if you want ON or OFF my General Interest ping list!. . .don't be shy.


254 posted on 10/13/2004 7:12:08 AM PDT by MeekOneGOP (There is only one GOOD 'RAT: one that has been voted OUT of POWER !! Straight ticket GOP!)
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To: politicket

BTTT


263 posted on 10/13/2004 7:19:48 AM PDT by EdReform (Have you seen FAHRENHYPE 9/11? - www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1240926/posts)
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To: politicket
If this story gets "legs" in the MSM (and that's a BIG if) it puts the Kerry camp in a classic dilemma.

If the story is false, all he has to do is sign the Form 180 and release the information disproving it.

MSM trumpets, "Slanderous Kerry Allegations Proved False!"

Kerry waltzes into the White House.

If it is true, however----

Any bets that Karl Rowe knows EXACTLY what is in those documents?
272 posted on 10/13/2004 7:27:03 AM PDT by Panzerlied ("We shall never surrender!")
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To: politicket
I and most freepers are unable to investigate this issue, but someone must do it. We cannot expect the media to research this claim.
It is not an issue that can be allowed to drop.
Can you imagine how serious this will be if after a Kerry victory, it is learned that the man received a less than honorable discharge from the service.
275 posted on 10/13/2004 7:32:25 AM PDT by quadrant
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