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Mystery Surrounds Kerry's Navy Discharge
New York Sun ^ | 10/13/2004 | BY THOMAS LIPSCOMB - Special to the Sun

Posted on 10/13/2004 12:54:03 AM PDT by politicket

Edited on 10/13/2004 1:07:27 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

Excerpt:

Mystery Surrounds Kerry's Navy Discharge

BY THOMAS LIPSCOMB - Special to the Sun
October 13, 2004
URL: http://www.nysun.com/article/3107

An official Navy document on Senator Kerry's campaign Web site listed as Mr. Kerry's "Honorable Discharge from the Reserves" opens a door on a well kept secret about his military service.

The document is a form cover letter in the name of the Carter administration's secretary of the Navy, W. Graham Claytor. It describes Mr. Kerry's discharge as being subsequent to the review of "a board of officers." This in it self is unusual. There is nothing about an ordinary honorable discharge action in the Navy that requires a review by a board of officers.

According to the secretary of the Navy's document, the "authority of reference" this board was using in considering Mr. Kerry's record was "Title 10, U.S. Code Section 1162 and 1163. "This section refers to the grounds for involuntary separation from the service. What was being reviewed, then, was Mr. Kerry's involuntary separation from the service. And it couldn't have been an honorable discharge, or there would have been no point in any review at all. The review was likely held to improve Mr. Kerry's status of discharge from a less than honorable discharge to an honorable discharge.

A Kerry campaign spokesman, David Wade, was asked whether Mr. Kerry had ever been a victim of an attempt to deny him an honorable discharge. There has been no response to that inquiry.

The document is dated February 16, 1978. But Mr. Kerry's military commitment began with his six-year enlistment contract with the Navy on February 18, 1966. His commitment should have terminated in 1972. It is highly unlikely that either the man who at that time was a Vietnam Veterans Against the War leader, John Kerry, requested or the Navy accepted an additional six year reserve commitment. And the Claytor document indicates proceedings to reverse a less than honorable discharge that took place sometime prior to February 1978.

The most routine time for Mr. Kerry's discharge would have been at the end of his six-year obligation, in 1972. But how was it most likely to have come about?


TOPICS: Breaking News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: discharge; dishonorabledischarg; kerry; kerrydischarge; lipscomb; lurch; militaryrecord; napalminthemorning; navydischarge; thomaslipscomb; traitor
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To: AFPhys

/sarcasm on

I don't understand what the fuss is all about.

John Kerry is a war hero.

George Bush is evil.

By the way, this KOOLAID tastes yummy.

sarcasm off/


381 posted on 10/13/2004 8:58:45 AM PDT by PowerPro (Still Praying America Wakes Up In Time)
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To: JoeGar
The article said But when a dishonorable discharge is issued,all pay benefits, and allowances, and all medals and honors are revoked as well. And five months after Mr. Kerry joined the U.S.Senate in 1985, on one single day, June 4, all of Mr. Kerry's medals were reissued.

Then you said: This is the most revealing paragraph in the article. It explains why the medal certificates were re-issued.

I agree 100%. It explains a lot, finally drawing together a number of loose ends that have been bothering me. I've felt that the Swifties had something really shattering on Kerry and were stringing out their ads before releasing it.

This is why the title of the Swift Boat vets book is so revealing, and must be giving Kerry nightmares waiting for their last shoe to drop.

For me, and I've been saying this for some time, the last shoe is a copy of some document that says this - either a dishonorable discharge, or explaining why the medals had to be reissued, or maybe even using the official language of "unfit for command". Said document was probably authored by one of the swifties.

When they do place said document before the American public, I think it would be only fitting if they were to fax copies of it to the media houses - from a Kinko's in Abilene, Texas.

382 posted on 10/13/2004 8:59:35 AM PDT by capocchio (If Kerry was unfit to command a single small boat, how can he command a ship of state?)
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To: JCEccles
It may be that Kerry faced a board and was involuntarily separated, but that the board recommended an honorable discharge. If so, that is still significant but much less of a bombshell.

But then there is the medal cititations that he cannot explain away.

383 posted on 10/13/2004 8:59:38 AM PDT by Truth Table
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To: AFPhys

BTT!!!!!!


384 posted on 10/13/2004 8:59:42 AM PDT by E.G.C.
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To: AFPhys

Just poking around the internet a little bit, I found this at http://www.landscaper.net/discharg.htm#Upgrading%20Discharges

Upgrading Discharges

Over 400,000 veterans who received "less than honorable" discharges between 1964 and 1973, may be eligible to have them upgraded to Honorable. (This does not include Dishonorable or Bad Conduct discharges)

Postal applications:
Joint Liaison Office
Attn: Army Liaison Team
USARPAC
St. Louis MO 63132

Phone calls:
The Joint Liaison Office 1-800-325-4040
Alaska, Missouri, Hawaii, & Puerto Rico 1-314-428-3500

National Personnel Records Center - Military Personnel Records


385 posted on 10/13/2004 9:00:15 AM PDT by snopercod (I have no interest in streamlining government or making it more efficient, I mean to reduce its size)
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To: hiredhand

JUST STOP ALREADY - Look at the pdf link AFPhys posted in 358.

Page two shows his awards and his honorable characterization of service after his release from active duty following his combat service.

He is an idiot and a scum and unfit for command. But lets read the documents before we post conclusions that the documents do not support.


386 posted on 10/13/2004 9:00:53 AM PDT by Notwithstanding
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To: AFPhys
Kerry's campaign states that he has revealed everything about his military service, and that it is on his web site. Wrong. He's lying. Surprised?

Kerry says that all the information that is there is there. It's a Kerryspeak thing.

387 posted on 10/13/2004 9:00:54 AM PDT by Samwise (Kerry is so 9/10 that he is 1971.)
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To: All

When Kerry's records were first posted on his website, I remember reading something about JAG or Judicial review, a letter from JAG, or something to that effect on one of the documents. May have been a cover letter or something, I just don't remember now. Could this also be a smoking gun about his discharge? I have tried to find it again, but my computer keeps locking up when I try to open up a PDF file at the moment. Perhaps an industrious person could see if they can find this notation on one of his records, including those that have been removed from his website. I commented to my husband at the time, wondering why JAG would have been involved.


388 posted on 10/13/2004 9:01:04 AM PDT by Flamenco Lady (4 More Years!)
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To: politicket

All former Navy o with legal seperations experience (legal o for my ship/assited base jag on seps)
There are 7 classifications of discharge for officers
Dishonorable
Bad conduct
Dismissal (officers only)
other than honorable
honorable
General (under honorable conditions)
Uncharacterized
The first 3 DD/BCD/Dismissal can only be awarded at a court-martial. However, this did not need to be a trial jury as a Summary CM can be handled at a COs level if they are at the appropriate command level.

An OTH is not uncommon for those who have been in trouble. Administrative boards may be convened by any CO and must contain a minimum of 3 persons. They make 2 determinations: retain/not retain. If not retain, characterization of the discharge. For enlisted members the minimum senior officer was a LCDR (O-4) one member could be enlisted - and we normally chose this option for two reasons (they were harder and they understood the sailors situation better). I never saw an officer seperated via this method but it was possible. It would likely require a more senior officer to chair.

If he was seperated involuntarily via this method then it could have either Uncharacterized or General. It is very difficult to upgrade an OTH to an Honorable; however, I have seen Generals upgraded several times to Honorable after a few years of seperation. Have never heard of an Uncharacterized discharge being issued.

Having worked on about 100 admin discharges from 1991-1994, I would guess that he was subjected to an administrative board and received a general, or was subjected to a Summary CM and a Dismissal. If it was any type of CM then it should be open to FOIA requests as these are trials - just under UCMJ jurisdiction. Would start with his last command and work up through the command chain. If it was administrative in nature then this would be closed as part of his record, but command retention records (open to FOIA) may be able to piece together if any officers were released under other than normal means. In addition command logs may note convening of CMs if local - I know we had to note on the deck logs if convened onboard ship.

Given all this I would guess that the situation was likely handled administratively - tends to be quieter and is a LOT quicker. The review board convened later would be able to upgrade his characterization after reviewing. I see this as the most likely scenario.

Also I do not believe I ever received anything besides my DD214 - no special certificate or anything. The DD214 would be the official documentation. I was seperated for failure to promote - passed over twice (used to be 3 times) - no special documentation required for that they just notify you and that is it. My committement was 5 active, 3 reserve - which I extended beyond the min for reserve purposes. Again nothing special when they seperated me just notification and normal outprocessing.

Sorry for being so windy. Just my 2 cents.



USNA '89
LT (USN 89-94/USNR 94-01)


389 posted on 10/13/2004 9:02:05 AM PDT by reed13
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To: Moose4

What a cynic - you don't think Dan Rather and Mary Mapes will grab this and run with it?


390 posted on 10/13/2004 9:02:48 AM PDT by matchwood
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To: Notwithstanding

"honorable characterization of service after his release from active duty following his combat service. "

He had a reserve obligation after active duty. He would have to have also been discharged from the reserves.


391 posted on 10/13/2004 9:03:00 AM PDT by AMDG&BVMH
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To: Flamenco Lady

Got a link?


392 posted on 10/13/2004 9:04:38 AM PDT by Samwise (Kerry is so 9/10 that he is 1971.)
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To: AMDG&BVMH

bookmark


393 posted on 10/13/2004 9:04:40 AM PDT by sissyjane (Silk pajamas for dress up, and flannel for everyday-perfect Freeper wardrobe!!)
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To: snopercod
Tx for the PING.

kabar's reply is interesting.

394 posted on 10/13/2004 9:05:08 AM PDT by First_Salute (May God save our democratic-republican government, from a government by judiciary.)
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To: AMDG&BVMH

Exactly - which is not what AFPhsy has been carping about.

Lets look at what is actually missing from the records.

What is missing is documentation of his release from the naval reserve.




395 posted on 10/13/2004 9:06:34 AM PDT by Notwithstanding
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To: All
Oh, this is rich. In the link I posted in #385, there is a section explaining the "SPIN Codes" on the DD-214.

This could be real interesting.

396 posted on 10/13/2004 9:06:37 AM PDT by snopercod (I have no interest in streamlining government or making it more efficient, I mean to reduce its size)
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To: AMDG&BVMH

In fact, if he does not have one, then he is still in the "IRR".

But I am pretty sure he has one.

Any one know where it is?


397 posted on 10/13/2004 9:07:16 AM PDT by Notwithstanding
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To: politicket

You are way too gracious...1-2% in the polls MAX.


398 posted on 10/13/2004 9:07:25 AM PDT by My Favorite Headache (Absalom, Absalom, Absalom....)
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To: Samwise
Well technically, they did. They have not disclosed all information relating to his service, though. Lawyer speak.
399 posted on 10/13/2004 9:07:32 AM PDT by Truth Table
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To: Samwise
Yes. Kerry cleverly says that he has released (put on his web site) all his records that have been provided to him. This does not account for those records he has not asked for, and, therefore, have not been "provided to him." Those records are covered by privacy rules. Too bad someone who is in a position to obtain and disclose those (retained) documents does not see a higher duty to the Constitution than to an individual's right to privacy. After all, Kerry seeks be President and Commander-in-Chief.
400 posted on 10/13/2004 9:08:05 AM PDT by Pharlap
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