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Why You Need To Know The Scots-Irish
Parade Magazine ^ | October 3, 2004 | James Webb

Posted on 10/03/2004 10:04:28 AM PDT by LNewman

One of the most powerful cultural forces shaping America, they've produced great Presidents, soldiers, inventors, actors and writers. But, as a group, they've remained unvisible. The time has come to change that, says the author.

snip ...

The Scots-Irish are a fiercely independent, individualist people. It goes against their grain to think collectively. But, as America rushes forward into yet another redefinition of itself, the contributions of the Scots-Irish are too great to remain invisible. My culture needs to reclaim itself-stop letting others define, mock and even use it-and is so doing regain its power to shape the direction of America

Because our country needs us.

(Excerpt) Read more at parade.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: americanhistory; ancestry; genealogy; immigration; ireland; ridgerunners; scotchirish; scotland; scotsirish
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To: Central Scrutiniser
Let me post the following re citizenship laws (my emphasis):

Loss of citizenship (INA § 349, 8 USC § 1481) Section 349 of the INA [8 USC § 1481] specifies several conditions under which US citizenship may be lost. These include:

* becoming a naturalized citizen of another country, or declaring allegiance to another country, after reaching age 18;

* serving as an officer in a foreign country's military service, or serving in the armed forces of a country which is engaged in hostilities against the US;

* working for a foreign government (e.g., in political office or as a civil servant);

* formally renouncing one's US citizenship before duly authorized US officials; or

* committing treason against, or attempting or conspiring to overthrow the government of, the US.

The primary effect of recent developments in the US regarding dual citizenship has been to add the requirement that loss of citizenship can only result when the person in question intended to give up his citizenship. At one time, the mere performance of the above (or certain other) acts was enough to cause loss of US citizenship; however, the Supreme Court overturned this concept in the Afroyim and Terrazas cases, and Congress amended the law in 1986 to require that loss of citizenship would result only when a potentially "expatriating" (citizenship-losing) action was performed voluntarily and "with the intention of relinquishing United States nationality".

On 16 April 1990, the State Department adopted a new policy on dual citizenship, under which US citizens who perform one of the potentially expatriating acts listed above are normally presumed not to have done so with intent to give up US citizenship. Thus, the overwhelming majority of loss-of-citizenship cases nowadays will involve people who have explicitly indicated to US consular officials that they want to give up their US citizenship.

So it appears that there IS a clause whereby one COULD lose citizenship but it is highly unlikely these days.

181 posted on 10/05/2004 7:44:15 AM PDT by Yaelle
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To: Glenmerle

"I love this stuff!"

You might find this of interest, also:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1235641/posts?page=22#22


182 posted on 10/05/2004 7:52:27 AM PDT by Matchett-PI (All DemocRATS are either religious relativists, libertines or anarchists.)
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To: js1138
I wear orange on Saint Patrick's day.

ROFL! I've done that since I was a kid, when my grandfather would stick an orange hat and sweater on me and then we'd go to the parade. Nobody would mess with Judge King and his grandson!

I've got Scots-Irish Presbyterian ancestors, Thomas King and Jane Sharp, that came from Londonderry in 1704, settled in Pennsylvania and then the entire family moved down to Northeastern Tennessee in 1782. It was at times, Virginia, North Carolina and the State of Franklin, before finally becoming Tennessee.

183 posted on 10/05/2004 7:56:14 AM PDT by Ol' Sox (Issa u Akbar)
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To: LNewman

Scotts-Irish and damn proud of it! A direct ancestor of mine fought in the Revolutionary War. Seems like an affinity for Guiness and Glenfidich is in my genes, though . . .


184 posted on 10/05/2004 8:20:02 AM PDT by Cooltouch
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To: johnb838; Let's Roll
Clinton is the only ELECTED Prez to be impeached. I know a lot of people who have heard that statement and thought they just heard "Clinton's the only Prez to be impeached" but it's not the same thing.

Andrew Johnson (not to be confused w/ Andrew JACKSON - the Scots-Irish Prez mentioned in this article) was not elected Prez. He was the VP who became Prez upon Lincoln's assassination shortly into his second term. I believe Johnson was not the VP during Abe's first term.

ANSWER: "Johnson, Johnson, Johnson & Johnson"
QUESTION: "Name two Presidents and a floor wax"
--- The Great Karnak

185 posted on 10/05/2004 1:19:49 PM PDT by CardCarryingMember.VastRightWC (This is your brain. This is your brain on liberalism. Any questions?)
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To: jocon307
except for weird Uncle Fred,

I remember Uncle Fred, too!

I'll never, ever forget his last words.

He said, "A truck!"

186 posted on 10/05/2004 1:22:34 PM PDT by CardCarryingMember.VastRightWC (This is your brain. This is your brain on liberalism. Any questions?)
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To: LNewman

I thought the definition of a Scots-Irish was "The guy at the pub who wanted to drink but wanted someone else to buy".........................

At least that's what my grandpa told me at the bar.


187 posted on 10/05/2004 1:24:07 PM PDT by WhiteGuy (Congress shall make no law... abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press...)
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To: penowa

"Copperhead"? I thought Buchanan was known as a "doughface" President - a derogatory label given to Northern politicians who had Southern sympathies in pre-Civil War days - like Buchanan, Franklin Pierce and Stephen Douglas. "Copperhead" was used during the war for Northern Democrat politicians who actively tried to weaken the North's war effort. NYC was the center of their power. Was Buchanan also a Copperhead as well as a Doughface?


188 posted on 10/05/2004 1:29:43 PM PDT by CardCarryingMember.VastRightWC (This is your brain. This is your brain on liberalism. Any questions?)
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To: LNewman

Scots-Irishman reporting for duty!


189 posted on 10/05/2004 1:31:13 PM PDT by Redleg Duke (Stir the pot...don't let anything settle to the bottom where the lawyers can feed off of it!)
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To: LNewman

Irish/Scots-Irish/Mexican here.

Whoa boy, keep me away from the Whisky and Tequila ...


190 posted on 10/05/2004 1:33:50 PM PDT by Betis70 (Guinness! It's whats good for ya)
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To: DugMac

Scottish or Scots-Irish? The Scots-Irish are Scots that settled in Ulster (N Ireland) and then came here--


191 posted on 10/05/2004 1:37:10 PM PDT by stands2reason
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To: irishtenor
I gets. He gets. They gets. They all gets.

"Curse Sir Walter Raleigh, he was such a stupid get" - Beatles

192 posted on 10/05/2004 1:41:34 PM PDT by CardCarryingMember.VastRightWC (This is your brain. This is your brain on liberalism. Any questions?)
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To: stands2reason

Yeah I think I messed that up.

NOT Scots-Irish here, I guess.

Irish/Scottish/Mexican. But supposedly one of my Scottish ancestors was a pirate. But you know how that family lore thing is ...


193 posted on 10/05/2004 1:46:41 PM PDT by Betis70 (Guinness! It's whats good for ya)
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To: Betis70
But supposedly one of my Scottish ancestors was a pirate.

Don't you love these stories? That's sort of what my post at 154 was about. Seems like everyone who grew up with a Boone line was told they were related to Daniel ... oh(!) ... and Pat!

A Scottish pirate would be pretty cool though ... keep that one. ;)

194 posted on 10/05/2004 1:57:40 PM PDT by LNewman
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To: LNewman

And get this ... it was a FEMALE pirate. I'll have to pester my Pop about that and get the details.


195 posted on 10/05/2004 1:59:10 PM PDT by Betis70 (Guinness! It's whats good for ya)
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To: x
but at least 20,000 of 250,000 were Gaelic Catholics (and 20,000 Anglican Anglo-Irish)

I had always heard that the Scots-Irish were just Scots who migrated from Scotland to N. Ireland and then some years later to the American colonies. It was only recently that I found out it wasn't just poor Scots who were pressured/ enticed/ whatever to migrate to Ulster by the Brit government. There were also quite a number of poor English who went with them (to N. Ireland and then to America).

My mother-in-law's family (Funston - probably derived from "Fen stone") has typically been called "Scots-Irish" but in reality was neither. They emigrated from the Fens - a very poor, marshy area (i.e. lousy land for agriculture) in eastern England to Ulster at the same time as the Scots did, and then later most of their family emigrated to America. So apparently, the English encouraged all sorts of poor Protestants - whether Scottish or English or Welsh - to become the fodder for their experiment to pacify Catholic Ireland.

Their story reminds me of another "double migration". The "German-Russian" immigrants to America were farmers first invited from Germany to farm untilled areas of Russia/Ukraine by Catherine the Great - the German princess who married a Czar and inherited the throne after his death. Her terms were extremely generous for those days - they got to keep their language and religion, could run their own schools for their kids, were free from heavy taxation for at least some number of years, etc. etc. When a later Czar rescinded the agreement and started violating all of the above terms, they left for America.

I'll just bet that all those diehard Johnny Rebs who left the South and started a colony in Patagonia rather than submit to Northern rule were all Scots-Irish.

196 posted on 10/05/2004 2:09:07 PM PDT by CardCarryingMember.VastRightWC (This is your brain. This is your brain on liberalism. Any questions?)
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To: Betis70
Female pirate? Anne Bonny? Check out THIS page.

See also Cyndislist for Pirates, Privateers & Buccaneers links.

197 posted on 10/05/2004 2:16:08 PM PDT by LNewman
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To: illumini
Both sides of revolution (tory and patriot)and civil war north and south)were represented in my family.

Obviously my ancestors were more efficient than yours. I have a single ancestor who fought on BOTH sides of the Civil War. Top that! Heh heh.

In his defense, he only fought for one side at a time, and he only switched once, and he only did so because his hometown switched sides after its citizens were more or less robbed by soldiers from their own side.

198 posted on 10/05/2004 2:17:12 PM PDT by CardCarryingMember.VastRightWC (This is your brain. This is your brain on liberalism. Any questions?)
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To: CardCarryingMember.VastRightWC
I think David Hackett Fischer spoke about the "Celtic Fringe" and said that Irish, Scots, Northern English and others mixed together more than people tended to think afterwards. But of course there were hostilities too. Gaelic speakers in Ireland and Scotland tended to remain Catholic and didn't mix much with Ulstermen or Lowlands Scots. And Southern Irish Protestants, whether their ancestors came from Ireland or England, have long been in a tricky position, distinguished from the Catholic Irish, the Ulster Presbyterians, and the English. Most of the English who did settle in Ulster, assimilated to the Scots-Irish way of life, which was different from both the Catholic Irish and Anglican Anglo-Irish cultures.

If the Scots-Irish have always been natural rebels, the fate of the Highland Scots in America has been interesting as well. After their two risings and the persecutions and expulsions, they tended to cling more to established authority. According to Fischer, Highlanders, who had settled mostly in North Carolina, were more loyalist in the Revolution, more Unionist in the Civil War, and more Republican in subsequent years than their English or Scots-Irish neighbors.

Albion's Seed is a fascinating work, and I recommend it highly. It's one of those books that gives you something to say about just about anything that happened in American history. Fischer had planned to write sequels on various African-American and non-British European cultures in American history, but apparently he gave up the project, and has turned to other subjects like Paul Revere's Ride and Washington's Crossing.

199 posted on 10/05/2004 2:32:26 PM PDT by x
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To: x
Thanks for the recommendation! I'll have to buy that book.

PS: My first new tag-line in months.

200 posted on 10/05/2004 2:46:04 PM PDT by CardCarryingMember.VastRightWC (The heart of the wise man inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left. - Eccl. 10:2)
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