Posted on 10/01/2004 3:09:50 PM PDT by Steven W.
Hugh on fire with the correct analysis on last night's debate.
W gave Kerry enough rope....
Or as my father used to say...
Don't get in a pi$$ing contest with a skunk
The end result of last night's exercise will be that Kerry thought he was going to a debate. Only this morning did he learn he was really filming RNC ads.
Can anyone give me a live stream? thanks!
Yes, but it was in the form of the global test ...
Otherwise he simply pointed people to johnkerry.com because he knew if he was to say 'train more Iraqis, suck up to Chirac, hold a summit & - whatever the other one is' - he'd have been laughed off the stage and left no plausible deniability for his campaign stooges.
"It's undeniable that President Bush did not have a strong debate."
I was listening to it on radio. I Bush sounded to me as though he was ahgry, resentful. I felt her resented having to entertein a man who gets away with lies and hypocrisy that would END ANY REPUBLICANS CHANCES FORTHWITH.
Also, I think Bush may have been over coached and was trying to remember prepared responses to certain cues from Kerry rather than listening and resopnding as HIMSELF.
PREDICTION: In one or both of the subsequent debates Bush will relax and his innate sense of humor will take over and he will SKEWER Kerry on live TV. Kerry is way too flawed NOT to be shown up.
Overall: Bush gets a big win, by hitting all his messages over and over again. He wins on substance. Biggest mistake by Kerry: "The Global Test." Sorry, the American voters aren't interested in passing any global tests. Bush stresses steadfastness and resolve. Kerry firmed up the hard-left vote, but you can't win on this.
Lehrer started poorly, but came on strong.
UPDATE: The FoxNews panel agrees: "Global Test" is the takeaway. On substance, Kerry wants appeasement of North Korea and Iran, globalization of conflict resolution, and a summit. Bush wants to take the war to the terrorists. Kerry wants meetings.
Bill Kristol thinks Kerry supporters are heartened. I agree. But so are Bush supporters. Kristol: "The core of the Bush claim is 9/11, and the world changed, and the Democrats want to go back to 9/10."
The message is simple, says Barnes: Your children will be safer. Fred's right. Bush knew what he had to do which is speak the truth about the war and the nature of the struggle.
Spinning is underway everywhere, but tomorrow and for 30+ days I'll be playing the global test clip, because it was the window into Kerry's soul, and Bush immediately rejected it because Bush wants nothing of it. As I wrote below: Game, set, match.
Presidential Debate Scorecard
September 11 changed how America must look at the world." Taliban gone. Elections coming. In Iraq, we saw a threat, and after 9/11 we realized we must act before threats fully materialize. Libya, A.Q. Khan. "Pursuing a strategy of freedom around the world.
A
Election of Sen. Kerry increase the chances of 9/11-like attacks? Great deflection. "It isn't going to happen." 10,000,000 registered to vote in Afghanistan
A
"We also have to be smart, Jim. And smart means not taking your eye off the target."
List of a few generals. Weak response.
Osama bin Laden escaped. Blaming Bush for outsourcing
B-
Cheap shot. Biased question. Kerry got a straightforward question. Bush got one Kerry could have drafted. Mistakes Bush made? Says Kerry declared Saddam was a grave threat. Nice comeback, "I agree with him" on Kerry's 2003 statement
A
"Somebody who's been in combat" Talking points. Says Afghanistan is going bad
B-
Another biased question, leading Kerry to where he wants to go. Split screen briefly "What about Senator Kerry's point?" Bin Laden v. Saddam "We've got the capacity to do both."
Global nature of war. Staying power. Praises Allawi.
A
"Iraq was not even close to the center of the war on terror until the president invaded it."
Big mistake.
F
Another biased question, one that Kerry would want. Lehrer is four for four. Both Kerry and Bush look quite good. "He voted to authorize the use of force." I don't see how you can lead this country if you say wrong war, wrong place...what message does that send."
A
"We have to be steadfast and resolved, and I am. We can't leave. But that doesn't mean it was a mistake to take the focus off Osama."
B
"As president, what would you do, differently to increase the Homeland Security of the U.S.?" "I hope he gets to how he;s going to pay for all these promises. My administration has tripled the amount of money that we have spent on Homeland Security." Facts. 3.1 billion for fire and police. But the best way to protect this homeland is to be on the offense. We have to be right 100% of the time, the enemy has to get it right once."
Stumbled on delivery. Good content
B
"What kind of mixed message does it send to ...police there, not here, firemen there, not one nickle into tunnels, bridges, subways, bridges. Containers not inspected. Cargohold not x-rayed. More important to this president to give tax cuts to wealthiest Americas..."
A nice set of charges.
Unbelievable. Does Kerry get any fast balls tonight? Of course we are doing everything to protect America. I wake up every morning thinking about how to do that. It is hard work. You'd better have a president who chases these terrorists down and bring 'em to justice." FBI changed its culture? There are 100,000 hours of tape unlistened to. test is not more money, it is everything possible. Didn't need that tax cut. Criteria for bringing troops home? I want to do so because we have achieved an objective. When our generals on the ground and Ambassador Negroponte tells me the Iraqis are ready to defend themselves.."
Notes Kerry's six month promise.
"This is a vital mission..."
A
My message to the troops is also thank you, but it is also "Help is on the way." The troops deserve better than they are getting. Story of "we need you. You gotta help us over there."
Cites Bush 41. "That's exactly where we find ourselves today. The only building that was guarded was the oil ministry." Moore's Disease?
"I know what its like to go out on one of those missions..."
D
Shades of Vietnam, Jim. Why don't you ask him if he thinks about Lyndon Johnson. Help is on the way: Wrong war wrong place. Wrong time. Not a message a Commander in Chief gives. $87 billion. Flip flop. That's not what a Commander in Chief does.
Home run.
A
President made a mistake in invading Iraq.
"Vietnam" mentioned.
D
You spoke to Congress...How do you ask a man to die for a mistake? "That's totally absurd." Nails Kerry on blasting our allies. "Join us in a grand diversion."
Core convictions keep changing because of politics in America."
Boom.
A
"It isn't a mistake."
Huh? He just said it was a mistake.
Incoherent.
Halliburton shot.
D
Finally, a good question, tough. And Kerry whiffs. Both candidates still speaking well and making their points. To Bush:What was the miscalculation of conditions. Rapid victory allowed Baathists to lay down arms and slip away. I am a realist and an optimist, but we cannot win if we send mixed signals to our troops, our friends, and the Iraqi citizens."
B
North Korea?
C
Tough but fair question for the president To Kerry: You have accused the president of lying. Give us examples. My opponent just said that Osama used the invasion of Iraq...Osama doesn't get to decide how we defend...Uses Kerry's own words. I wasn't misleading. And uses Kerry's word agains and again.
What is misleading is to say that you can lead and succeed if you keep changing your positions. Not how Commander in Chiefs act.
Same intelligence.
A, because Kerry cannot answer this.
You cannot change positions on this war on terror if you change positions.
B. Stumbled on the Osama explanation.
I have never used the harshest word, I'll tell you exactly how.
Yellowcake! Unbelievable.
The coalition wasn't big enough
The UN was cut short
I have worked with these leaders longer than the president
C
Tough question for Kerry To Bush: Has the war in Iraq been worth the 1,052 lives lost in Iraq "The hardest part of the job is to know I committed the troops to the mission, and then to comfort the loved ones who lost a son or a daughter or a husband and a wife." "I told her after we prayed and teared up and laughed some that I thought her husbands sacrifice was noble and worthy, because I understand the stakes of this war on terror."
Was it worth it? Every life is precious, that's what distinguishes us from the enemy. But I think it is worth it.
Bush has made the "wrong war" comment half a dozen times. He knows this is the doom for the Kerry candidacy.
A
I understand what the president is talking about because I understand what it means to lose people in combat ...Vietnam again...It is vital for us not to confuse the war with the warriors. That happened before [who did that JFK, in 1971?]
Weak
C-
The Pottery Barn rule? Yeah, Powell said that years ago. But this isn't the Pottery Barn
Tough but fair. The number is just drama from a moderator who isn't supposed to hunt for drama. To Kerry: Specifics, time-lines, for ending major US military involvement in Iraq "There's 100,000 [Iraqi] troops trained. Now my opponent says he is trying to change the dynamics on the ground. Alklawi was here. My opponent questioned his credibility. You can't change the dynamics on the ground when you do that. nailed the Lockhart"puppet" slam. Very strong.
Bush is very well prepared and confident.
A
Bad for Kerry: "I didn't say six months, I said six months if..."
Sound bite.
Fallujah? Heading to the right of the President as RogerLSimon suggested on my show tonight? Shouldn't have backed off. Bush needs to answer that.
Bad start, good finish. B-
Fair question, needs a follow up Another pre-emptive war? I would hope never to have to do so again. But by speaking clearly, sending messages that are clear...Look at Libya...Libya understood. But there's a solemn duty to protect...
A
In answer to your question, he just said "The enemy attacked us. Saddam didn't attack us. Al Qaeda attacked us. We had him cornered, we didn't use the best trained troops in the world, they outsourced the job..."
A from the fever swamps view; a disaster for mosy of the electorate.
D
Great question To think that another round of resolutions would have caused Saddam to disarm is ludicrous. 35 to 40 countries had a greater capability of making weapons than Saddam Hussein. And while he's gotten diverted, NK, Iran Darfur... To Kerry Pre-emptive war? What's he mean, passes a global test? You take preemptive action in order to protect the American people."
Game, set match.
A
President always has the right. "But if and when you do it Jim, you have to do it in a way that passes the global test..."
The global test? Prove to the world that you did it for legit reasons?
Disaster. Major disaster. UN John surfaces.
F
Great question NK/Iran: Diplomacy and sanctions enough I certainly hope so. Explains five party process. Firmness on Iran.
A
We should have given Iran the fuel?
Another disaster.
Misrepresents the North Korean dynamic, which won't last through tomorrow as it
Ais a tissue of lies.
Good questions Lehrer: Talks The minute we have bilateral talks. The breach of the agreement was the highly enriched uranium. We have already sanctioned Iran. Kerry wants bilateral talks Kerry: Darfur
Responds on Iran by noting the sanctions were there long before he got there. Good reply to the bad move by Kerry.I agree it is genocide, and Colin Powell so stated. Offers some troops. Takes same position as Kerry.
B
Back to Iran. Bad form. Wants more cooperation. There again he kind of slid by the question. Yes it is a genocide. We can do this through the African Union provided we give them the logistical support...
"Back door draft taking palce today..."
More fever swamp stuff
B
Good question. Neutral. name the subject and back away. Cameras have been solid throughout. To Bush: Are there underlying character issues that you believe are serious enough to deny Bush doesn't take the bait. Starts with many compliments. But comes back to changing positions on Iraq. "You cannot lead if you send mixed messages. Mixed messages send the wrong signals to our troops, to our allies, to the Iraqi citizens. I admire his service, but I just know how this world works, and in the councils of government there must be certainty from the US president."
A
I appreciate the personal comments the president just made. Gracious back. Nice moment.
This issue of certainty..it is one thing to be certain, but don't be certain and be wrong. Take new facts and change and get the policy right. he's not acknowledging stem cell research global warming etc
A
"That's a loaded question.." said Bush. He's right Agree if you need to shift tactics, but I won't do is change my core values because of politic or because of pressure. You cannot wilt under that pressure
A
I have no intention of wilting...my position has been consistent...
Doesn't make sense.
D
If you are electeded, what's the single most serious threat We have increased funding for dealing with nuke proliferation. I agree that weapons of mass destruction in the hands of a terrorist network is the biggest threat. We began the proliferation security initiative. 60 nations involved. Effective. We busted A.Q. Khan. A proliferator. Libya disarmed.
Continue with missile defenses. We have a robust r&d program. Implementing it quickly. Kerry opposes missile defenses.
B
On re-ask: Nukes in hands of terrorist enemy
Big mistake to have bilateral talks with NK. China no longer involved. Must have China's leverage,
Nuclear proliferation. Unsecured nuclear material in Russia. Wrote a book about this. Is Kerry saying he foresaw the war against the terrorists? Too great a reach. Demands more money. Then on to North Korea. Blasts bunker busting nuclear weapons. It doesn't make sense? Again, the freeze is back! The US can't be trusted? I am going to shut that program down. It is the freeze. How stupid can you be?
F
On re-ask
The difference between us is North Korea's got more weapons, Iran is moving there. I am going to do it in 4 years
To Bush: Did you misjudge Putin Not ok to change democratic processes. Need checks and balances. He's sending a signal to US that perhaps he doesn't believe in checks and balamnces I have told them that. He's also an ally in the war on terror. That's the nature of the enemy which is what Putin understand. "I have a good relations with Vlaidmir, and that's important. I have told him my opinion, and I look forward to discussing it with him. Very important for the president to remidn him of the great benefits of democracy.I will continue working with him over the next four years."
Lehrer" He used the word truth again.
"I am a pretty calm guy. I don't take it personally. I don't hold it against him that he said "grave threat" and I don't go around the country saying he didn't tell the truth.
I watched that transition up close and personal, one of the first senators to go down into the KGB and see reams of files andsee names in them. I regret what's happened in these last months. Mr. Putin now controls all the televisions tatsions. His oppsoition is being jailed. We always have to stand up for democracy.
Back to China: Just because the president says it can't be done, doesn't mean it can't be done. We can have thos ebilateral talks and still get China.
Follow-Up: Kerry shifts away from WMD. "incredible mess in Iraq," it is not what the American people thought they were getting
Closing statement "If America shows uncertainty or weakness in this decade, the world will drift towards tragedy. That will not happen if I am president."
No draft. Stay on offense. We will fight the terroists around the world so we do not have t fight them at home. No veto on American foreign policy.
A
We both love this country very much. But we have a different set of conmvictions about making us stronger at home and respected at home. You want to know who can get your kids in Iraq home and get the job done. To other [parents: Let me look you in the eye and say to you I defended this country as a young man and I will defend it as president. I am not talking about leaving. I am talking about winning. A plan to win the war on terror. Re-warmed acceptance speech from Boston.
B-
Click link for thread and once on Hugh's site, select "Listen Online" from box in upper right corner, then choose station ie KRLA or 1170 from 8-9 EST (3rd) hour.
Precisely. Kerry and his band of metrosexual men now think they're "on the offensive," when it's really the final high speed run before hitting a brick wall. They've convinced themselves that they're turning the campaign around, when what they're feasting on, and trying to feed the electorate, is 'Rat poison. Let them follow their own delusions for the next four weeks.
If both parties agreed that no clips could be used in ads, then the DEMs have broken that agreement. They are now showing president Bush's reactions to Kerry's words on Kerry's website
I meant in terms of their world-view and the fact that all three are anti-american traitors.
Here is my speculation regarding the thinking in the Bush camp. Bush has accused of being perhaps a bit mean, a bit overbearing. Taking Kerry apart on his positions rather than mildly pointing out the inconsistencies might have been deemed to have the potential to reinforce that image. Also, we all know George isn't the best speaker in the world. Getting into a You did such-and-such, did not, did too, did not, did too kind of battle with the weasley Cairy might have been thought to put him in a weak position.
I think it's turning out fine, though I was concerned this morning.
Firstly, we need to recognize that unlike John (the Gigolo) sKerry who has a lot of time on his hands even while 'campaigning' (and forget that he's absent from the senate 2/3rd of the time anyway). President Bush was at work and even made the time to visit the hurricane wracked state of Florida for the 4th time.
We saw how he freely mingled with the people and genuinely showed emphathy & compassion with those thus affected.
So going well into the debate, yes we saw him being somewhat stumbling and even a bit seemingly mumbling his answers, but understand that as the President of the Most Powerful country in the World and being at War and under the CONSTANT THREAT OF A TERRORIST ATTACK, imagine the kind of constant pressure that this man has to endure.
In contrast sKerry CAN afford to get his Orange (or whatever color he chooses) tan, get an expensive manicure and even a teeth whitening!!
So one was working hard and one was loafing & getting pampered? Who cares?
As for me I want the man who cares and that is George W. Bush!!
bttt
Hugh doesn't start here until 4pm (25 min. from now). I'll be sure to listen.
I did see his website posting last night.
That was correct to a certain degree but important nonetheless. Bush did listen and respond but wove his themes in throughout. You can recall them, duty, mixed messages, and others. Remember a lot of people don't watch the whole debate and campaign needed to assure the messages made it through. For those who watched a portion or the whole one they definitely did.
Hugh just recalled & replayed the segment from primaries when Kerry was caught off microphone saying "these guys are the biggest bunch of liars"
mark
It all goes back to this question pundits were asking before the debates, "How will G.W. counter Kerry's ability to lie and avoid the subject at will?"
He did it by staying on the settled message, attacking Kerry at specific moments to ensure that message remained consistent, and letting Kerry win the "Style" verdict. Result was a Kerry that thought he had the edge, allowed his Liberal views to be heard by the public, and will wake up with a hangover as he realizes what he let slip.
No one in America is going to penalize G.W. for not being fluent with the English Language. They know this isn't G.W.'s strong suit, they know his personality, and they know his Heart. The only one that could be damaged by personality is Kerry. What Kerry needed to do was win or tie on substance, and he blew it.
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