FR Live Thread: Bush Kerry - First Debate - Thread 2 - Here we go!

[Admin Moderator]

Thread 1 - Pre-Debate discussion

[Scenic Sounds]

I don't know that anyone won or lost this debate, but I do think that each of the candidates did a pretty effective job of presenting his case regarding foreign policy. They were able to clarify the differences of opinion that separate them.

The really pleasant surprise: The media had warned us that, because of the rules agreed to by the candidates, this debate would be tame, that it would be nothing but a "joint press conference." The media were clearly wrong, in my opinion.

[cyncooper]

Kerry won the debate. Had more facts..

Depends on the meaning of "facts". Even Brian Williams on MSNBC just said that several NBC producers watched and started fact checking candidate's assertions and he cited examples from both. Surprise! Bush's stood up to sourcing and Kerry's were "creative".

We in this house all thought Bush won but conceded Kerry did well stylistically. I submit that many an American thought by the end--perhaps just subliminally--that they would not care to spend the next four years listening to or looking at Kerry.

[Dan Middleton]

I haven't posted in months but felt like chiming in here.

Current AOL poll on who won the debate is 50-50. 72% of respondents said the debate didn't change their vote, though Kerry is winning those who said it did change theur vote 17-10.

People, remember that over the past couple of days, Kerry's pals in the MSM have actually been talking him down - making gun of his fake tan, complaining about his image of inconsistency, etc. They were trying to lower expectations so Kerry would look better almost no matter what happened.

Yes, I got annoyed when I heard Bush pass up chance after chance to absolutely bisect Kerry - the one that annoyed my most was when Kerry went on and on about the troops not having body armor and Bush didn't immediately mention that Kerry had voted against giving it to them - but he was trying to stay "above the fray", so to speak. Look Presidential, don't sink to Kerry's level, you get the idea.

It's been too long since the 2000 debates. Bush was no different here than he was there. People (including family members, which distressed me at the time) said Gore won on points there, and Bush still ended up "winning" them in the long run.

Bush didn't say anything that can be used as ammunition against him in the weeks to come. The same can definitely NOT be said of Kerry. Many people here have already pointed out his idiocy, and I believe he's going to get hammered for it by the Bush campaign between now an 11/2.

[ALOHA RONNIE]

.

...There was another Debate in the last couple of days, a Debate Rep. LORETTA SANCEZ ran from as...


..Rep LORETTA SANCHEZ's spouse seeks divorce...

http://www.Freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1230700/posts

.

[alcuin]

I wish we could put Rush everywhere.
AT ONCE!

[Torie]

I don't want to say too much about this debate. I want to watch it again, since I heard part of it on the radio, part on TV, and missed a bit entirely. My initial reaction would mirror yours, except I would be more caustic. The silver lining is I thought Bush lost the first debate to Gore quite handily, and was wrong. Thus I suck as a leading indicator of what folks think. But I am worried. But beyond the main points, simply didn't show a relaxed command of his case. Beyond conclusions, he didn't have a lost of detail. But then some say that is a mistake in a debate.

Thank heavens Kerry was so damanged coming in, is my first thought.

[rinkrat]

The DemoRats have out Freeped us on the post-debate polls... :( Maybe they did it while we were watching the tv.

Think Bush did fine and showed remarkable restraint in not walking over to bitch-slap Liveshot at several moments during the debate. After listening to that Gigolo speak during those 90 minutes I feel the need to go take a long shower to wash his filth off me. How many times did he wave his slick Willy right clenched fist with thumb on top at us? I lost count. Do have to give his makeup person kudos though for covering up his Frankenface.

Thank God we had and will have W in the Oval office. Can only imagine how Liveshot would have reacted to 9/11.

[foolscap]

I didn't see Mrs. Kerry but I don't doubt what you say is true. She has been looking that way for the past few weeks. I think it started about the time she went to the hospital for her stomach. I would not be suprised to learn she was on tranquilers or drinking a bit or both for that matter. Has she done any major speeechs this week? Maybe they are trying to keep her in the background

[4bushinOH]

Kerry came across as smooth and articulate in stating what he wants to do...We don't agree with it so we may have missed it! He said it's possible to start pulling out in 6 months...he wants summits and discussions instead of a** kicking...to the uninformed that will sound good..

the bottom line is Bush lost this one..he appeared unprepared and PO'ed...next one will be better...kerry will get a bounce...

i hope Bush gets more of the moms and housewifes on his side, especially in Ohio...

[Havoc]

The questions sucked. Bush missed a couple of opportunities and allowed Kerry to leave some impressions that are just flat wrong. Personally, I don't think Bush was as effective as he normally is but he seemed tired.

Objectively, I don't see a real winner here - not in terms of just this debate. Bush got in some weak licks and Kerry was allowed to get by with saying a couple of things that went unanswered. Two glaring issues are that - 1. We haven't left Afghanistan - we're still there. 2. We didn't get France and Germany's assistance and weren't going to get it because they were trying to hide what they'd been doing in Iraq. The president also gave Kerry room to wiggle off the hook on the matter of 'I voted for it before I voted against it'. Leaving that unanswered when Kerry weasled out was akin to saying - okay that was just a debate tactic, I surrender the point...

Kerry was effective in presenting his message; but, dishonest in his presentation. How that is recieved will depend on how much the public really knows and how much they trust Kerry. And I'm not talking about the Koolaid drinkers.

Overall, Nothing to write home about. Kerry, regardless of the fact that he's a liar, is a strong debator. That he managed to come out of this debate with what is essentially a draw, speaks bad for both of these two.

I will say this, the president seemed tired and still did reasonably well so I don't see this hurting him on it's own. The next one will leave a mark if he let's things slide like he did on this one. And it's probably best that this is done now. In three weeks, it's doubtful it will be remembered. The debate on the economy will be closer to election time and that stands a real chance of hurting. If this plays the way I expect it to. Bush will be on the defensive. He should be on the offensive.

[prairiebreeze]

Great synopsis of the pundits reactions! Thank you so much!

Prairie

[Cats Pajamas]

Hey CTM

Did you see at the end after they shook hands. Teresa was walking back down the steps, going to sit down in her seat. Wsn't this woman checked on protocol and procedure. It was either that or she was happy, happy, happy.

I still think Hillary is behind every move that is made on his behalf. Wonder who encouraged him to get orange and manicured? VHCC VAST HILLARY CLINTON CONSPIRACY thats who.

[nopardons]

The vast majority,on this thread,is coming from newbies,people in their 20s,people who are hard faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar fight fringers,and/or the usual doom&gloomers.

Yes, this debate was geared toward those who don't usually pay any attention to anything much and it was so plodding,so biased,and Kerry was sooooooooooooo wonkish,that I bet that any people stopped watching very early on; probably when Kerry began his "I WAS IN VIETNAM" comments.

By everyone's immediate lights,supposedly President Bush lost EVERY SINGLE DEBATE IN 2000. But WHO is president now...algore of PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH? This is something the doom&gloom naysayers are completely ignoring.

[Crimson Elephant]

The best analogy I've heard so far was some guy on PBS who said Kerry looked like the smartest kid in the class and Bush looked like the "seen it all, heard it all" teacher.

[Trombone]

I disagree with you--our President was prepared and followed the rules of the debate. He was not slick enough to segue into the upcoming question like "the opponent" did.

If the questions were known to the moderator only, then how did Kerry slip some unknown troubled spot somewhere in Africa in the answer proceeding the question from the moderator?

[snarkytart]

>>>>FOX panel consensus...Kerry did better than Bush and polls will tighten "slightly." Kristol seemed bummed. Fred seemed unphased, still thinks Bush will win election.<<<<


Yes and Kristol also said that Kerry's convention speech was one of the best poltical speeches he has heard since Reagan.I do not pay attention to him.

[Lady Jag]

[Eva]

Did you go there from a link on FreeRepublic?

[Hildy]

Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage
And then is heard no more: it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.

[Darnright]

We might want to head over to http://www.cnn.com/ and vote for Bush having won the debate. Only 6777 people have voted for him so far (at 11:20pm) compared to 31,000 mind-numbed Cair-y groupies.