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To: MarMema
I'm happy that the SOB's were shut down. However, I don't believe that was Putin's context when pointing to the West. He specifically aligned us with those who wished the "carve out a chunk" of Russia, or some similar hyperbole. I certainly don't expect that you think it's resonable of him to say we're aiding and abetting terror front groups in this country.

Look, I've come in late to this discussion, and I've only been able to skim the comments. Here's my take:

There are published plans for the USSR playing possum that have been existence for a long, long time. Prior to the dissolution of the Soviet system, I might add. These plans continue to gain validation, the steps back to reconstitution continue to fall on the path. Not everything has gone the Bolsheviks' way, but by and large the march seems to be relentlessly forward.

Of course, those who see this and dare mention it are labeled "terrorist supporters" for pointing out ulterior motives and subsequent actions of those who would take advantage of the terrorists. Hogwash.

I don't think any right-thinking, moral person would condone terrorism like Beslan. What is being pointed out is that there are two options some of us consider: A man like Putin may either be taking advantage of the situation, or is involved in a an actual bit of puppetry. I suspect the truth lies somewhere in-between.

No one wants to see the USSR reconstitute, rather the whole point of highlighting the antidemocratic nature of Putin's moves is to try to confront it and stop it.

I am not wearing a tinfoil beanie, I assure you. I'm a big-R Republican with an eye on those things that say "truth is stranger than fiction." Politics and International relations have always been shadowy things, and there is a lot of denial about the current shadows.
492 posted on 09/23/2004 7:39:55 AM PDT by Frank_Discussion (May the wings of Liberty never lose a feather!)
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To: Frank_Discussion

Great post...welcome to the trenches.

It's comical that the very same people arguing that the only way to eradicate Islamic fascism from this Earth is to kill all Islamic fascists, are arguing that somehow, a little over a decade ago, communism simply changed its mind, and became a benevolent, elderly aunt whom we should all love. The only nation in the world to completely overthrow communism was Spain, and it took a long and bloody war to do it.

Russian communism, like Islamic fascism, is a cancer, and it has been in remission for a while...it's coming back.


538 posted on 09/23/2004 9:07:41 AM PDT by Luis Gonzalez ( Even Jane Fonda apologized. Will you, John?)
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To: Frank_Discussion
He specifically aligned us with those who wished the "carve out a chunk" of Russia, or some similar hyperbole.

There is nothing hyperbole about it at all. Read up on Brzezinsky, who has written several books outlining just such a strategy for the west.

575 posted on 09/23/2004 11:15:42 AM PDT by MarMema (next year in constantinople!)
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To: Frank_Discussion
He specifically aligned us with those who wished the "carve out a chunk" of Russia

And he was correct. There are a number of Americans supporting the idea of chechnya becoming a state of its own. Chechnya is part of Russia. Putin was correct that there are Americans who are financing the war from the chechen side. If chechnya is independent of Russia, that would be a chunk carved from Russia.

Putin is also correct in that a number of prominent Americans would like to see Russia carved into many smaller states. Brzezinsky and Halfbright are two of them.

There is nothing hard or surprising about this statement, but perhaps you need to see it as not aimed at Bush, which it was not.

602 posted on 09/23/2004 3:19:33 PM PDT by MarMema (next year in constantinople!)
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To: Frank_Discussion
"Chechnya is part of Russia."

I love that.

Conquered people should resign themselves to remain conquered, I bet you that somewhere in an American colony, some person once said "America is a part of England" as their argument against the American Revolutionary War.

In this forum, people wax on endlessly about freedom being a gift from God bestowed upon mankind, our inalienable rights as children of a giving and caring Almighty...with the exception of the people of Chechnya.

Chechens have never stopped fighting their Russian conquerors, never in the 145 year history of the Russian occupation have they accepted the yoke of Russian oppression, and I don't think they ever will.

606 posted on 09/23/2004 4:18:49 PM PDT by Luis Gonzalez ( Even Jane Fonda apologized. Will you, John?)
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